The Problem with white birds

[Guest]

OK - not the greatest shot of a gull - this was taken near Retreat House on the R.Exe at Topsham - I should have taken the dinghy and rowed to a better vantage point. But I think it will illustrate my question about white bird burnout.

How do you cope?

Does a polarising filter help (I don't have one for the Sigma 135-400 I was using)?

This was taken with 1.3 ev -ve compensation and I've still got problems on the neck and tail feathers. More compenstion and I fear the background would have gone too dark.



I get the same issue with the blessed coots - there it is the beak and forehead which show up as white whilst the should in fact have a pinkish hue. The problem being exacerbated by the birds black plumage.

Help!

Nick

[snaarman]

Re: The Problem with white birds

Hi there Nick

Yes, dynamic range is a problem with this kind of subject.

My only suggestion would be to use RAW, possibly combined with some EV compensation and see what can be rescued from the highlights. That method might bring back the blocked out white areas, but it tends to mess the highlight colours somewhat.

On a bird related note. We were on a canal boat cruise thing at dusk last night on the Basingstoke canal, and we chugged slowly past a heron about 15 feet away. As you may discern, I had no camera with me... Aaah the one that got away..


Pete

[Guest]

Re: The Problem with white birds

Hi there Nick

Yes, dynamic range is a problem with this kind of subject.

My only suggestion would be to use RAW, possibly combined with some EV compensation and see what can be rescued from the highlights. That method might bring back the blocked out white areas, but it tends to mess the highlight colours somewhat.

On a bird related note. We were on a canal boat cruise thing at dusk last night on the Basingstoke canal, and we chugged slowly past a heron about 15 feet away. As you may discern, I had no camera with me... Aaah the one that got away..


Pete

Ah - but I do shoot RAW, and do use -ev compensation, but I still get problems.

OK ideally I should set the exposure by using a single point on the brightest part of the bird, but hey at maximum crank on the lens it is hard enough to locate/keep the subject in the field of view, let alone get a single spot over the brightest feathers.

I'm reluctant to generate several images from RAW with different 'retrospective' compenstion (though that technique can work) as once you get up the iso scale you start compounding noise.

Don't get me wrong, I think my current approach gets reasonable results, using the highlight option on image review and dialling in compensation on -ev, but there is probably a better approach/work technique. One of the reasons I wonder about using/buying a polarising filter for that lens.

Herons are, in my experience, often quite camera shy. There is one that regular visits the canal that has been taunting me for weeks.

Thanks

Nick

[art frames]

Re: The Problem with white birds

Nick

Don't you think we expect technology to be able to do more than it can? You have done really well, with a well balanced picture. For me that is the key thing.

Cameras,computer monitors and printers all struggle to reproduce the whole range of tone and colour. People get very inventive about how they force the system to try to give them a wider range (usually at the expense of the other end of the tone scale).

I see similar debates in my other interest area hifi. Using all sorts of artificial techniques (compression and limiting) producers can force more information on a CD. To me it sounds worse and I prefer naturally balanced recording.

On bright days white birds are bright and make my eyes hurt, you have recorded that well.

Best wishes

Peter

[PeterD]

Re: The Problem with white birds

Nick,

Sorry for intruding but I have had to deal with this problem for some time.

I notice from the exif data that you are using matrix metering. This is normally fine but I have found that using single point metering is more effective. The metering then acts as a spot meter and helps to prevent losing the detail in the white feathers. Its worth a try. The E3 spot metering is quite accurate.

This is a good setting for both dark and light coloured birds.

Good luck

PeterD

[Guest]

Re: The Problem with white birds

You are of course right Peter (Artframes) - we do expect a degree of perfection - and blown areas are such a photographic sin that maybe I'm getting over sensitive. The whole issue of looking at the details rather than the image.

Yes PeterD I was in matrix mode, I do some of my bird shoots in single point - sometimes I don't like the way it can darken (or over expose - if shooting coots) the background. But I would have probably done better to use single point when I shot this, didn't remember to think of this at the time

And of course you are not intruding, funny idea, I posted for comments and yours have always been on topic and helpful.

Still wonder about using polarizing filters in this situation - anyone got any views.

Nick

[HughofBardfield]

Re: The Problem with white birds

Still wonder about using polarizing filters in this situation - anyone got any views.

Nick

I would have thought it would knock back the reflections on the water and the mud and reduce the overall brightness, but that might take some of the life out of the image. Hadn't thought of using one with the 135-400 myself, but I might have a bash now you've mentioned it. I use Cokin filters, so my PL will fit as I already have an adaptor I use occasionally for ND grads. I hate to think how much a decent 77mm screw-in Circ PL would cost!