10 Hour Working Week

[Jim Ford]

Re: 10 Hour Working Week

This really proves our politicians have lost the plot.

https://metro.co.uk/2019/06/10/plan-...abour-9878450/

Not the way I read it:

"unprecedented decrease in the economic activity" means to me that a 10 hour week could be forced on whichever party is in government.

Jim

[pdk42]

Re: 10 Hour Working Week

I can see the wider point that the report's authors are trying to make.

In the developed world the average person lives about 80 years and during that time consumes more resources and produces more pollution than the planet can sustain in the longer term. If we do nothing then the biosphere will at some point collapse to the point where human habitation becomes marginalised or even impossible. That will be very bad news for anyone who has to live through it.

So what do we do? We could carry on as we are and just let it happen. Leave it as a problem for future generations and let events take their course. Given how short-term humans can be (especially politically), maybe that's what'll happen.

But we could try to change our behaviour and avert the catastrophe. What would that mean? Well, we need to change our behaviour - and behaviour of human populations at large is called economics. Work is a product of how we run our economic system and right now the economic system measures lots of things but it cares nothing for the long-term survival of our biosphere. Probably the only way to fix the environmental car crash we're heading for is to change our economics to look at things differently.

Our current economic system incentivises us to work. But the work we do is consuming the planet's resources and producing pollution and greenhouse gases in large quantities. Why is it "a priori" wrong to look at how we might make a new economic system where work is not like this? There's nothing sacred about work - it's something most of us do for 40 years or so of our lives and we do it partly to put food on the table and a roof over our heads, but a bigger part of the reason we do it is because the economic machine tells us we need more - cars, cameras, holidays, jewellery, ... But do we really need those things to fulfill our 80 years?

I understand that this sort of thinking sounds very pie in the sky, but carrying on as we are is not sustainable. Either we figure out a way to change it in a controlled way, or the geophysics/chemistry/biology will force us to do it in a very unpleasant way.

[MJ224]

Re: 10 Hour Working Week

Could not agree more...………..

Alas, we are at the point of no return. Its going to be very difficult to halt the onward march of need and greed. We in the "West" could just possibly do without new luxurious objects, but those of a poorer way of life want the cars, washing machines, indeed cameras.

As a human race, we are ignoring the needs of the biodiversity around us, we have lost 40 million birds in the last 50 years, 75% of insects in the last 30 years. Habitat and climate change are largely responsible. The former we know for certain, and whatever you believe is the cause of the latter, its definitely on its way...…….

We have an exhibit at the WWT Llanelli at the moment, especially commissioned by WWT, a bell encased in several glass cubes. When it tolls, warning us humans, the casing dulls the sound, an analogy of our disconnect from the needs of our environment...……….



Climate change warning bell



Bouke Groen and the warning bell

(The Dutch artist who designed the bell)

by Mark Johnson, on Flickr

[Naughty Nigel]

Re: 10 Hour Working Week

I can see the wider point that the report's authors are trying to make.

Our current economic system incentivises us to work. But the work we do is consuming the planet's resources and producing pollution and greenhouse gases in large quantities. Why is it "a priori" wrong to look at how we might make a new economic system where work is not like this? There's nothing sacred about work - it's something most of us do for 40 years or so of our lives and we do it partly to put food on the table and a roof over our heads, but a bigger part of the reason we do it is because the economic machine tells us we need more - cars, cameras, holidays, jewellery, ... But do we really need those things to fulfill our 80 years?

I understand that this sort of thinking sounds very pie in the sky, but carrying on as we are is not sustainable. Either we figure out a way to change it in a controlled way, or the geophysics/chemistry/biology will force us to do it in a very unpleasant way.

It is not the creation of wealth that is wrong, but the love of money for its own sake

[Internaut]

[Naughty Nigel]

Re: 10 Hour Working Week

"The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money."

We have seen that happen many times in the past, but I fear a Corbyn government could take that concept to a whole new level of fiscal incompetence.

[wornish]

Re: 10 Hour Working Week

Corbyn promises free everything if you would just vote for him. He has a free money tree in his allotment so we will all be fine.

Oh and he also said Venezuela had a great socialist model !

[Internaut]

Re: 10 Hour Working Week

"The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money."

We have seen that happen many times in the past, but I fear a Corbyn government could take that concept to a whole new level of fiscal incompetence.

[Internaut]

Re: 10 Hour Working Week

Corbyn promises free everything if you would just vote for him. He has a free money tree in his allotment so we will all be fine.

Oh and he also said Venezuela had a great socialist model !

I seem to recall May also had a money tree to give a good shake, when she needed extremists to prop up her minority government.

[wornish]

Re: 10 Hour Working Week

May leaves her job with the biggest spending commitment of any PM since WW2. It's estimated that to be carbon neutral will cost the UK 1 Trillion pounds and as usual, that will be an underestimate. Shame the rest of the world won't be following but at least we can be proud that we tried.

Good job we will only be working 10 hours a week will need the rest of the time to walk to work making windmills and tending our allotments.

[Jim Ford]

Re: 10 Hour Working Week

I am sure that many of those working 'at the coal face' as it were would be happy to work fewer hours in return for more free time

My experience in industry was that for many a shorter working week meant more opportunity to work overtime!

Jim

[Naughty Nigel]

Re: 10 Hour Working Week

Tell that to the Tories. They’ve become one of Socialism’s greatest practitioners, in their own way.

I agree with that. You really couldn't make it up. But a Corbyn led government could be even worse if that is possible.

At least we do still have a defence industry I suppose.

My experience in industry was that for many a shorter working week meant more opportunity to work overtime!

Jim

Well yes; there is always that opportunity. Every cloud and all that.

Do you remember 'the good old days' when strikes were often planned immediately before bank holidays?

[Naughty Nigel]

[Bikie John]

Re: 10 Hour Working Week

I would be interested to hear what you think of the various temperature settings for making coffee, I always use the "boil it and wait a bit" method but it would be nice to be a bit more scientific. And I'm sure my binary kettle (if it isn't on, it's off) will die some time.

John

[Jim Ford]

Re: 10 Hour Working Week

We have one of these:

https://www.argos.co.uk/product/9016710