It's those job-gabbing migrants again!

[Zuiko]

Headline on front page of The Daily Express:-

2M EU Migrants Grab Our Jobs

But hang on, don't the latest figures show that unemployment is only 1.7 million? Now I'm not a mathematician, but it seems to me that without the migrant workers we would be pretty much stuffed. Okay, many of them are in low pay jobs, which entitles them to certain in-work benefits that Mr Cameron is keen to deny them, but those benefits would still have to be paid if British workers were doing the jobs and the figures suggest that there wouldn't be enough of them anyway. In fact, I wonder how many of the 1.7 million are disabled or chronically sick with no real prospect of finding work, but have been forced into registering as job seekers by the Government's policy of bullying and intimidating genuine benefits claimants?

Funny how the Government are keen to perpetuate a myth that is the product of the popular press, to the extent of making it a corner stone of the renegotiations of our EU membership. Could it be a convenient way to deflect from their failing economic policies and reluctance to address the ever-widening gulf between the top 1% and the other 99% of our population?

[drmarkf]

Re: It's those job-gabbing migrants again!

Right on.

Although, in my humble opinion it's the gap between the top 0.25% and the rest of us that we really need to get heated about.

[crimbo]

Re: It's those job-gabbing migrants again!

Forget the top 1%, they will always be there....in their own little world.
We need to find a way to get reasonable equity amongst the 99% of us.

As for migrants - I have no problem. Do you think the NHS would be working if we didn't have migrants working alongside us?

Do you think other countries health services would be working if all (quite a big number ish) of our doctors had not gone to work overseas?

Migrants who want to work is good.

But don't let facts get in the way of politics

[Ralph Harwood]

Re: It's those job-gabbing migrants again!

Does that 1.7 million jobless include all those people who are stuck with zero hour contracts and no stable income - I think not! There are more people without a full time guarenteed wage than there have ever been. Yet more Tory lies.

And yes, as a country we would be stuffed without the migrant work force underpinning our health service and many other industries.

Rant over ;-)

Cheers,

Ralph.

[Wally]

Re: It's those job-gabbing migrants again!

I'm all for adding MP's and others, such as those senior exec's in those banks bailed out and financed by the public, to the zero hour contracts with no stable income. Prior to this, I would grant the 'existing zero club members a decent living wage

[Naughty Nigel]

Re: It's those job-grabbing migrants again!

From what gather there are several problems here.

Firstly, far too many Brits simply refuse to do the jobs that EU Migrants come here for, irrespective of pay.

I am thinking particularly of farm labourers, but there are many other jobs that 'we' simply will not do any more.

(When I was a lad at school we used to have a week's holiday for tatty picking, such was the importance of this job in the rural community. I daresay most youngsters nowadays think tatties come from Tesco!)

John may well be right that many of the 1.7 million 'unemployed' are disabled or unable to work for good reason;but many more could work if they willing and able to find the right job near to where they live.

Secondly, we are giving tax credits to migrant workers so they can be employed (exploited?) on the minimum wage, or even less, working in the fields to make profits for food producers and supermarkets.

As I understand it, these same workers are able to claim child benefits for children not living in the UK.

The end result is that tax credits and child benefit, paid for by British taxpayers, are being sent abroad, and crucially, are not being spent on the British high street or on British products and services.

Some may argue that benefits help to stimulate the economy by encouraging spending, but this can only work if that money is actually spent within the UK.

[Imageryone]

Re: It's those job-gabbing migrants again!

The true figure for unemployment is much nearer 6.5 million if you include the 25-60 age group who are now classified as in " Full time Education " Another little massage to the real figures.

The old saying is very true:-
Lies!
Damned Lies!
Statistics!

[Zuiko]

Re: It's those job-grabbing migrants again!

As I understand it, these same workers are able to claim child benefits for children not living in the UK.

The end result is that tax credits and child benefit, paid for by British taxpayers, are being sent abroad, and crucially, are not being spent on the British high street or on British products and services.

Some may argue that benefits help to stimulate the economy by encouraging spending, but this can only work if that money is actually spent within the UK.

These are good points.

[Guest]

Re: It's those job-gabbing migrants again!

Government and governing is all about the orchestration of fear to divert us from dragging our pollies to the guillotine.

[Loup Garou]

Re: It's those job-grabbing migrants again!

Firstly, far too many Brits simply refuse to do the jobs that EU Migrants come here for, irrespective of pay.

I am thinking particularly of farm labourers, but there are many other jobs that 'we' simply will not do any more.

.

Correct, but looking back over the past decades - even as far as the Colonial days, this is bit of a chicken and egg situation. The reason why a lot of British workers no longer want to do anymore is because they subconsciously perceive such jobs as suitable for only migrants. If migrants had not arrived steadily over time, that feeling would never have arisen in the first place.

Trying to cover job vacancies by whoever is willing to do it might work in the short term or even middle term, but it is never going to be a long term answer. No matter how you look at it, the wheel will turn around and come back, bringing with it a whole new set of problems.

As the moment there may be tens of thousands of migrants willing to take on any job as long as they can sink roots in the West but in time they (or more likely their descendants) will not want to do "those jobs" and we are back to square one....of a sort.

Incidentally, I am a "migrant" myself.

[Zuiko]

Re: It's those job-gabbing migrants again!

The true figure for unemployment is much nearer 6.5 million if you include the 25-60 age group who are now classified as in " Full time Education " Another little massage to the real figures.

The old saying is very true:-
Lies!
Damned Lies!
Statistics!

Yes, the official figures are open to question, but I was struck by the paradox created by the unemployment and migrant statistics that I had seen reported within the last 24 hours.

I know for certain that the unemployment figures are wrong in at least one case - me! I can't work, even though I'm of working age and really need to work, but I'm not allowed to claim JSA or ESA, therefore I'm not counted in any statistics.

[Wally]

Re: It's those job-gabbing migrants again!

With regard to the ^ post by John. The BIG question is...

Of late, I have wondered at the mentality of some of those tasked with ascertaing if one is disabled.

If proof be needed, I read today that a double amputee was requested to prove he was disabled. The fact he was in a wheelchair and his legs stopped at the knee was apparently overlooked. As for the bus driver, if his / her eyesight is so bad what the big F are they doing driving a bus? Although this tale goes back several years, more reently there has been cases of severely handicapped people having had their disability called into question. Some have had their disability rejected with loss of transport and, in one case this month, a judgement was overturned in the courts with regards to the bedroom tax.

Why can't people like John, where possible, be given the task to sit in judgement such as those mentioned above?

[Naughty Nigel]

Re: It's those job-gabbing migrants again!

Having read the posts above it also occurs to me that we tend to have different views about 'migrants' depending on the jobs that they do.

I think almost everyone in the country accepts that the NHS would collapse if 'migrants' were sent back to their own countries, but we have different views about farm labourers and construction workers.

I cannot really comment on the NHS as (thankfully) I don't know enough about it, but I think it would be fair to say that 'migrants' occupy positions from cleaners to consultants, and everything in between.

Throughout history I don't think farm labourers have ever been well paid in this country, although the lifestyle suited some people. However, comparative pay and conditions have almost certainly become worse in recent years with the increasing use of migrant labour, driven by the profit motives of big supermarkets and multi-national food processors.

This has led to the "top 1%" that we keep hearing about, who run the supermarkets, and the bankers who look after their money!

This in turn is largely driven by OUR demands for cheap food, but I cannot help but feel that profits should be more fairly distributed throughout the food production system.

At one point (before their spectacular fall from grace), Tesco owned five executive jets, paid for in part by tax credits to migrant farm labourers, and dairy farmers who earned so little from milk that they were better off pouring it down the drain.

Maybe if our supermarket chains were smaller and less powerful?

Just one further thought on the subject of farm labourers; I mentioned before having a week off from school for tatty picking. I also remember my mother talking about going to Kent for two weeks of hop picking during the summer holidays. From what I recall they used to sleep in barns, farm buildings or wherever they could.

For many youngsters living in London this was a great holiday in the fresh air and a taste of independence all rolled into one, with an opportunity to earn a few pounds at the same time. When did this stop I wonder?

Youngsters today probably couldn't do work like this owing to health and safety, child protection rules and the risk of Hay Fever!

[DerekW]

Re: It's those job-gabbing migrants again!

I think the hop picking stays ended when hops started to be imported and also the Londoners were moved to the "New Towns" eg Harlow, Stevenage, Basingstoke and the associated industrial estates providing year round work.

However I may be wrong - often am.

[Imageryone]

Re: It's those job-gabbing migrants again!

I remember fruit picking for Chivers Jams during the long summer holidays, it was a way of earning some money. Whole families moved with the crop all over East Anglia and then down to Kent. For some it was their yearly income.