WELCOME This site is for anyone interested in Olympus and OM System system cameras. First time visit? Check out our FAQ. You need to REGISTER before you can post. After registration and two posts, forum ads will disappear.
* Registered members don't see ads on the forum after two posts - sign up for free *
So when I've heard politicians extolling the Comprehensive system over the years I find myself thinking - "yeah but I can see you never went to one...."
John Prescott in particular has made impassioned speeches about the evil of Grammar schools, how they divided families, and how he was made to feel a failure because he didn't pass his 11 Plus.
But was this a valid reason for destroying our best state schools so that we could all celebrate mediocrity? I don't think so.
John Prescott didn't pass his 11 Plus. So what; get over it. People fail exams every day, just as people don't always pass their driving test, and don't always get their dream job.
Taken to its logical extreme, does this mean that I should be allowed to work as a brain surgeon or an airline pilot because these are elitist occupations and it would be fairer to let everyone have a go at them if they want to?
We now have ridiculous rules in school sports days where winners and losers are forbidden. Some schools don't even allow parents to attend sports days in case they should see some children running faster than others in the egg and spoon race, or heaven forbid, take photographs of them.
It is about time that politicians and educationalists got real, and understood what children, and their future employers need from them.
It is all very well complaining about the lack of manufacturing jobs and imports from China; but presumably the Chinese haven't raised three generations of children who wouldn't know which end of a screwdriver to hold?
In fairness, there is a need to improve education to compete with other countries, but I'm not sure whether Media Studies, Sports Technology or Leisure Studies are really the most worthwhile degree subjects.
I'm not so sure. Sport is big business, as is media. Lots of people involved with TV, films etc started with media studies. Same goes for leisure, big business.
I'm not so sure. Sport is big business, as is media. Lots of people involved with TV, films etc started with media studies. Same goes for leisure, big business.
Maybe; but there are a heck of a lot of students who plumped for Media and Leisure Studies, etc. only to find there are no jobs for them.
What we need is engineering and manufacturing business.
There is a finite limit to the number of jobs that can be created on the back of importing everything from China.
Trainers? Pumps? We had gutties which had to be kept in school and outdoor? shoes changed on entry to school.
Our piece ( packed lunch) was bread and dripping on a good day! Oh the good old days.
Having read through from post #1 to reach here, I can only conclude that for many posters the stress levels have plummeted. Nothing like a good moan to clear the air even if much of what has been said is the whole truth and nothing but... etc.
Looking back at my academic achievements in life... all of 1/2 a microsecond with time to spare, I have to ask yet again why it is certain factions have to mend something that wasn't broken?
A lot of valid points have been raised, many of which can hardly be classified as progress. The dumbing down is everywhere and has been slowly taking its toll. Most worrying of all is that it is now acceptable and being applied in almost every walk of life.
Perhaps it's time to grasp the politico's and their ilk by the short and curlies and squeeze really hard. As the saying goes, if you have them in your hand and squeeze hard enough, they will listen and follow you anywhere.
BTW I may not be around in the near future as if GCHQ read this and take action, I'll be off to jail PDQ. Still, looking on the bright side I should get my degree for £ 0 and free room and board thrown in for good measure.
It's not what inspires us that is important, it's where the journey takes us.
Rest assured that GCHQ are NOT spying on us; if they were I would have been interred as a dissident long ago!
John
"A hundredth of a second here, a hundredth of a second there � even if you put them end to end, they still only add up to one, two, perhaps three seconds, snatched from eternity." ~ Robert Doisneau
I'd vigorously oppose any re-introduction of the two-tier Grammar and Secondary Modern System.
I went to a Secondary Modern and for the two years was just read stories, did art and gardening. It was a waste of time as I worked my way up the system, but hey, it didn't matter because we were all failures and destined only to be 'hewers of wood and drawers of water'!
It was only in the fourth year when I was transferred to a more enlightened Sec. Mod. that I began to learn, but the damage had been done and I'd great gaps in my education - no languages or science, little maths and had not been subjected to the discipline of homework.
I'd vigorously oppose any re-introduction of the two-tier Grammar and Secondary Modern System.
I went to a Secondary Modern and for the two years was just read stories, did art and gardening. It was a waste of time as I worked my way up the system, but hey, it didn't matter because we were all failures and destined only to be 'hewers of wood and drawers of water'!
It was only in the fourth year when I was transferred to a more enlightened Sec. Mod. that I began to learn, but the damage had been done and I'd great gaps in my education - no languages or science, little maths and had not been subjected to the discipline of homework.
Jim
To a large extent it's not the type of school that matters but the way in which it is run. I, too, went to a Secondary Modern but my experience was entirely different. With a few exceptions, the teachers were enthusiastic and committed to helping us achieve the very best that we could, within the limits of our own capabilities. I left with 3 'O' levels (English, Maths and Geography), which quite frankly was an under-achievement, but that was more to do with a lack of self belief on my part rather than any deficiency on the part of the school or the teaching staff. My education was still good enough to equipe me for 38 years of uninterrupted work in a career in which I did not excel, but nevertheless enabled me to enjoy a reasonable standard of living and make a worthwhile contribution to the economy through taxes paid and disposable income.
Not all kids are capable of developing into captains of industry, managers or creative geniuses, but they all deserve a chance to make the most of their potential and find opportunities in employment suited to their capabilities. The modern fixation with degrees is counter-productive because if half the workforce have them they simply become devalued and those who don't have them are virtually consigned to the scrap heap at the very start of their working life. Beside the entreprenuer, surgeon, city banker and CEO we also need the builder, mechanic, plumber, toilet attendant and even the person who asks, "do you want fries with that?" All are entitled to respect and a decent standard of living.
What we need most of all, though, are people researching, designing, making and selling things both in the home market and abroad.
I'm sorry if this post has rambled a bit and lacks the fluency that would have come with a better education, but I am forever grateful in particular to Mr Allen, my English teacher 40 years ago, who helped me gain a reasonable understanding of the language, despite being one of the outcasts of the education system at the time.
John
"A hundredth of a second here, a hundredth of a second there � even if you put them end to end, they still only add up to one, two, perhaps three seconds, snatched from eternity." ~ Robert Doisneau
I left with 3 'O' levels (English, Maths and Geography)
At neither of the Sec. Mod. schools that I attended, were 'O' Levels taken or offered to any pupils. I had no idea what they were until I started my apprenticeship. The same with degrees and universities - I'd not even heard of them before I left school.
I'd vigorously oppose any re-introduction of the two-tier Grammar and Secondary Modern System.
I went to a Secondary Modern and for the two years was just read stories, did art and gardening. It was a waste of time as I worked my way up the system, but hey, it didn't matter because we were all failures and destined only to be 'hewers of wood and drawers of water'!
It was only in the fourth year when I was transferred to a more enlightened Sec. Mod. that I began to learn, but the damage had been done and I'd great gaps in my education - no languages or science, little maths and had not been subjected to the discipline of homework.
Jim
I would say this is exactly why the two-tier system should be reintroduced!
That way at least those pupils who are sent to Grammar Schools will learn something, rather than the present 'comprehensive' system which seems to be comprehensively mediocre in my experience, and fails to teach anyone anything at all.
Living in Tony Blair's former socialist utopia you would think we would have the best state schools around, but the fact is that until recently, anyone who could either sent their children to public school or a church school outside of the area.
The only schools around here to have money spent on them were in marginal Labour constituencies.
I would say this is exactly why the two-tier system should be reintroduced!
So you're quite comfortable with consigning children to an educational scrap-heap at the age of 11, if they don't pass the 11 plus?
Incidentally, both my daughters went to a comprehensive school, and one got the highest 1st of her year in her law degree, and the other is a Head of English at a school - so I guess the comprehensive system served them well!
At neither of the Sec. Mod. schools that I attended, were 'O' Levels taken or offered to any pupils. I had no idea what they were until I started my apprenticeship. The same with degrees and universities - I'd not even heard of them before I left school.
Jim
It's really quite astonishing that such differences should exist between schools of the same category within the same system. At my school it was recognised that the pupils needed a little extra help and we did not sit our 'O' level exams until the end of the 6th form, which was much later than other schools. At the end of the 5th year we sat the CSE exams, as practice for the GCEs the following year. Pupils intending to leave at the end of the 4th year were encouraged to sit RSAs so that they at least had some academic record.
After leaving school I gained an 'O' level in Economics at night school, just for my own satisfaction at a time when I was becoming disillusioned with the banking exams. It's an intriguing possibility that this may make me academically better qualified in the subject than George Osborne.
John
"A hundredth of a second here, a hundredth of a second there � even if you put them end to end, they still only add up to one, two, perhaps three seconds, snatched from eternity." ~ Robert Doisneau
We process personal data about users of our site, through the use of web browser cookies and other technologies, to deliver our services, and to analyse site activity. No banner advertising is shown to members logged in to the site. For additional details, refer to our Privacy Policy.
By clicking "I AGREE" below, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our personal data processing and cookie practices as described therein. You also acknowledge that this forum may be hosted outside your country and you consent to the collection, storage, and processing of your data in the country where this forum is hosted.
Tweet
Comment