Aviary Birds - Wildbirds ?

[Chevvyf1]

Keith,
I am staggered by your statement "illegal to keep wildbirds and release any birds" ???

My uncle used to breed Goldfinches and other small wild birds for release to the bird population - about 30 years ago ? He belonged to all sorts of Bird Clubs so NOW that is illegal ?

[ringneck]

Re: Aviary Birds - Wildbirds ?

I am sure it has been illegal for as long as I know....I think there was an Act around the start of the 1950,s

All British Bird breeders HAVE to fit closed rings to any young they breed with numbered rings which can only be authorised by a registered society.This has to be done within say 10 days as the rings do not fit over the legs after that.
It is a very tricky process to time it right and to make sure no harm is done to the birds.
I have always fitted these rings to any birds I breed except the very small foreign finches like Zebras (which do not have to be done to satisfy a law) and my Bengalese Finches ( https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=Be...w=1024&bih=653 ) which do not exist in the wild ...being a hybrid of various - probably- unknown finches.They are dedicated parents and were bred along side Canaries and British birds to help rear their young if there were problems with their rearing.

Doing this not only registers birds to the breeder but also shows there age.....a great help if say you was buying one and the owner was trying to say it was a young one when clearly it is not.

I know Sea Eagles,Kites and Bustards HAVE been bred for release in the U.K. but only by special licence, as it needs to be monitored and to make sure that the chance of spreading diseases.

Living in and around the Black Country we still get the odd case in the local papers of unscrupulous characters who still trap and sell some of the little British finches....large fines get administered.
Hope this helps.
Keith

[PeterBirder]

Re: Aviary Birds - Wildbirds ?

Keith,
I am staggered by your statement "illegal to keep wildbirds and release any birds" ???

My uncle used to breed Goldfinches and other small wild birds for release to the bird population - about 30 years ago ? He belonged to all sorts of Bird Clubs so NOW that is illegal ?

Chevvy, it's the Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981 plus later amendments.
You need a special Licence and good reason to do this sort of thing.

Regards.

[ringneck]

Re: Aviary Birds - Wildbirds ?

Just done a quickie and found this......

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1954/30/pdfs/ukpga_19540030_en.pdf

Keith

p.s. I think Lyn in Oz has similar laws to stop the birds going out of the country.

[ringneck]

Re: Aviary Birds - Wildbirds ?

.I know Sea Eagles,Kites and Bustards HAVE been bred for release in the U.K. but only by special licence, as it needs to be monitored and to make sure that the chance of spreading diseases

Meant to add that as nice as all the Kites are around the country.....I saw a lot on the way to and from your house the other week...I do not agree with the re-colonisation.
They WERE doing bad in the 80's and only a few existed in Wales BUT what they needed to do was protect these and make things right habitat wise to encourage them OVER THE LONGER PERIOD to get a foot hold and spread naturally.
Why can't THEY let everyone breed all the other British Birds - as you thought we could still do - and we could all just let them loose and instantly the countryside would haver the bird numbers and diversity that a lot of us remember from years ago.
I will breed Kingfishers and also fish and then let them all go together on my stream and then set up a viewing place where at 2pm I could release all the fish and a Kingy extravagansa could take place......mind you no one would bother to come and see that.Maybe they could do it with Kites - that might work....

I find it appalling that someone decided it was a good idea to do this with the Kites and even more that they were allowed to do it.
Everyone who sees the Kites around are glad to do so but a lot of people hate to see the Buzzards and they spread by there own expertise...surely the Kite could have done this as well without people sticking there 2peneth in.....Ravens have done it as well.
I will now never believe that Kites are real British Birds - mearly Spanish or Scandinavian impostors.
Keith

[Chevvyf1]

Re: Aviary Birds - Wildbirds ?

Keith and Peter, Thank You so much I think my Uncle was a British Bird breeder

I sometimes think I would like to spend some hours just sitting out in the Courtyard, looking at some lovely little Finches we have bred I shall have to look into this - as they are so cute maybe I shall not breed them for release

[ringneck]

Re: Aviary Birds - Wildbirds ?

Yes I think when I have more time......retired...I too would like some British Finches....the Bullies,Goldies and maybe Redpolls as well.
To breed them takes a bit more time as they need some more attention than the common Foreign ones.

I had some about 40 years ago but only in a mixed Aviary as I didn't have a proper indoor facility.The Redpolls bred and had young but got disturbed and never tried again.

It's great to look and listen to them in an aviary though.

Obviously you would have to contact a breeder for your stock.

Keith

[Chevvyf1]

Re: Aviary Birds - Wildbirds ?

Yes I think when I have more time......retired...I too would like some British Finches....the Bullies,Goldies and maybe Redpolls as well.
To breed them takes a bit more time as they need some more attention than the common Foreign ones.

I had some about 40 years ago but only in a mixed Aviary as I didn't have a proper indoor facility.The Redpolls bred and had young but got disturbed and never tried again.

It's great to look and listen to them in an aviary though.

Obviously you would have to contact a breeder for your stock.

Keith

Keith I would have to contact a local breeding club re Avairy birds and it would be a few years learning before I kept birds myself I would have to "know what I needed to know" and have the correct facilities - although we have tonnes of space here its the buildings design thats important.

My Uncle was into prize winning Roses ! I used to love staying with them a week in summer hols (I got shipped out) then one summer all the massive Rosebeds were GONE In their places Bird Aviary's all sorts of breeds ... but I liked them too ...

[David M]

Re: Aviary Birds - Wildbirds ?

The Wildlife and Countryside Act also makes it illegal to photograph/disturb listed species at or near the nest.

[Chevvyf1]

Re: Aviary Birds - Wildbirds ?

David, I only learned that, when we met a pair of very happy to be fed Hovis Brown bread by us, Swans, on the Kennet & Avon canal ... they had a nest with eggs and I took photos ... well they were happy and I had a long zoooom

and a friend said NAY you cannot do that ... I know it was no excuse ... to try and make up for it ... we took a loaf a few times a week and fed them and 5 signets ...

[ringneck]

Re: Aviary Birds - Wildbirds ?

It is not the done thing to disturb Mute Swans at the nest but a few pics with long lens is O.K. I think if you got too close the parents would do you more harm than the law...lol

No it's not Mute Swans that are specifically protected but Bewicks and Whoopers...which you will not find nesting in Hampshire.

He's a guide ....

http://www.kentos.org.uk/Law/law.htm

Keith

[Wee man]

Re: Aviary Birds - Wildbirds ?

In this part of the world you can apply for a licence to photograph birds in the wild or at the nest. It is well controlled and must the applied for each year, and returns must be made. I hold one for birds and mammals.

[wanderer]

Re: Aviary Birds - Wildbirds ?

Interesting discussion.
I've always hated seeing birds in cages and aviaries.
Their whole raison d'etre is for me for them to fly free.

We have Kites near my mother's house and they are a joy to see. They were introduced about 15-20 years ago. Their numbers are rising slowly although a third of all Red Kites in Scotland have died at the hand of man.
The Buzzards in this part of the world went ballistic in numbers in the 90s.
I think it was partly due to less gamekeeping and consequently less disturbance and shooting. Sea Eagles up here are doing well and there is some circumstantial evidence that they are competing with Golden Eagles for food. A further problem for both species is a steady reduction in sheep on the Scottish hills. Less sheep, less carrion. There is little evidence of predation on live livestock.
The smaller bird species are often ignored as they are less glamorous.
I am particularly fond of finches and buntings. At the sea edge I like the Ringed Plover and Eider.

On the other hand the whole field seems to be hogged by men of a certain age. ( probably my age) There do seem to be a number of men (and they are always men) who dictate (or try to) policy from a long way off. Absentee landlords whose policies are enacted by young altruistic, naive academics looking of their first jobs.

I can recommend a book 'Isles of the West' by Ian Mitchell which covers wildlife and peoplepolicy in the Hebrides. It is in places very funny.
He wrote a follow up 'Isles of the North' in which he went to Orkney, Shetland and Norway.
By the end of the second book he was very confused.
He is a journalist/writer by trade. And also a man of a certain age.

[PeterBirder]

Re: Aviary Birds - Wildbirds ?

Interesting discussion.
I've always hated seeing birds in cages and aviaries.
Their whole raison d'etre is for me for them to fly free.

I agree.

Wild birds are just that, WILD.
The serious decline in our wild birds is due to our destruction of their natural habitat and persecution by humans.The main thrust of organisations like the RSPB, The Wildlife Trusts and The Wildfowl and Wetlands Trust is habitat replacement and creation. The Wildlife Trusts' most important programme at the moment is called " Living Landscapes ". This , through land acquisition and management is not only replacing lost habitat but also developing habitat corridors between established habitats for all wildlife and at the same time improving the environment for humans.

http://www.essexwt.org.uk/living_landscapes/

It is quite wrong IMHO to regard common birds we see as ours. Most birds are at least to some extent migratory and territorial. Our Blackbird population increases significantly in winter when birds from the continent fly across to escape the cold weather. Common Mallard ringed on our reservoir have been recovered 2700km away in Russia and 1000km away in Spain. Ringing records show that the population of Coots on our reservoir ( a double digit percentage of the entire UK population) is in fact two populations. One group spend the winters in Northern France and are replaced by another group which moves down from further North. What we think we see is the same number of "our Coots" but they are not.

Please don't even think about captive breeding of common wild birds and releasing them to increase your local population. They will simply have to compete with the existing birds for territories in the diminished habitat which is the reason for their decline in the first place. Far better to support or work with one of the above organisations to find ways of improving or replacing the local habitat and the birds will do the rest.

Sorry for the rant but I think this is important.

Regards.

[gregles]

Re: Aviary Birds - Wildbirds ?

I agree.

Wild birds are just that, WILD.
The serious decline in our wild birds is due to our destruction of their natural habitat and persecution by humans.The main thrust of organisations like the RSPB, The Wildlife Trusts and The Wildfowl and Wetlands Trust is habitat replacement and creation. The Wildlife Trusts' most important programme at the moment is called " Living Landscapes ". This , through land acquisition and management is not only replacing lost habitat but also developing habitat corridors between established habitats for all wildlife and at the same time improving the environment for humans.

http://www.essexwt.org.uk/living_landscapes/

It is quite wrong IMHO to regard common birds we see as ours. Most birds are at least to some extent migratory and territorial. Our Blackbird population increases significantly in winter when birds from the continent fly across to escape the cold weather. Common Mallard ringed on our reservoir have been recovered 2700km away in Russia and 1000km away in Spain. Ringing records show that the population of Coots on our reservoir ( a double digit percentage of the entire UK population) is in fact two populations. One group spend the winters in Northern France and are replaced by another group which moves down from further North. What we think we see is the same number of "our Coots" but they are not.

Please don't even think about captive breeding of common wild birds and releasing them to increase your local population. They will simply have to compete with the existing birds for territories in the diminished habitat which is the reason for their decline in the first place. Far better to support or work with one of the above organisations to find ways of improving or replacing the local habitat and the birds will do the rest.

Sorry for the rant but I think this is important.

Regards.

Totally agree with everything Peter says but would add that the knowledge of expert breeders has been utilised to ensure species such as the Bearded Reedling have been captive bred for release to ensure the status of the species in the UK.

Would also have to add that breeding British birds in captivity is an extremely onerous task. At all stages in the keeping and breeding of these wonderful wee birds you have to prove that they have been captive bred. In law you usually are innocent until proven guilty but when it comes to bird keeping you are guilty of an offence unless you can absolutely prove otherwise. You will be subject to raids, by the RSPCA, the SSPCA and the Police, under warrant, purely because you keep British birds. It seems such a shame, when climate change is threatening the very habitats of many of our indigenous species, that the fellas who have been keeping and breeding our native species are being villified and criminalised for doing just that.

Of course there have been some bad eggs involved along the way but when the law is switched and absolute chancers are used by the Crown as "expert witnesses" to scare the living daylights out of the most ordinary men and woman you would ever meet - something is wrong

Freedom comes in many guises, be sure of where you stand, and what you stand for, before you consider casting stones in anyone's direction. The very basic right to take photographs in public places resonates with the very basic rights you and I have to keep animals as pets. Just remember there is always someone out there who knows better