Commenting on Items for sale

[timboo]

I decided to create this thread following an item being for sale and comments placed on it.

Depending upon the party involved comments can be interpreted differently being the:

Seller
Potential buyer
Person providing feedback

I think it could be an opportunity to see what people think on this forum as I have fallen into all three of the above and I believe the third party has its place within reason.

I will give my opinion to get things moving starting with my own experiences of using Ebay/Paypal, camera shops, this forum and my thoughts on grey importers.
Followed by tying them into listings on this forum.

Ebay

I have bought and sold on Ebay. I don’t particularly like selling on Ebay owing to exuberant fees and the lack of seller protection. Also the amount people who complain about items having not read the full description but still purchase. (seller protection is another topic to discuss separately.) I mainly buy on Ebay if using it.

Camera shops UK

I have bought and sold to them. When buying the outcome has been positive even when teething problems occur. Prices can sometimes be cheaper than Egroup forum and Ebay plus offer a warranty. When selling it provides convenience and reassurance but generally speaking costs the most to sell to.

Egroup forum

I have bought and sold on here. I have nothing but gratitude. On every occasion it has been a pleasure.
Whilst there is an element of risk this is mitigated by the passion and reputation of people on here.


Grey imports

Prior to purchasing some of my gear second hand I did question why purchase second hand when grey imports were cheaper. I have never purchased a grey import for the simple reason it avoids paying VAT, which I disagree with.

Where does it all tie in?

Prior to listing an item I do research and occasionally I may get my pricing wrong. I welcome feedback from anyone if it helps me either sell my item or understand that my expectation is realistic/unrealistic. Again whats the worst that can happen?
There difference with this forum is that it is a Forum and by nature everything is open to discussion. Don’t foget it is free to buy/sell. Then throw into the mix the convenience its a very good option.
I have recently placed a comment on a listing here when I had no intention of buying it purely because the price was over the top and I purchased said item brand new from a dealer for less.
It could be argued that it wasn’t my place and if such a rule need to be introduced then I’d obviously oblige by it. Equally I’m actually assisting the seller with their pricing and assisting a potential buyer. I’m not being malicious just speaking from a factual point of view. After all the whole purpose is to sell an item.
Pricing wise as a rule of thumb I place prices on here slightly lower than Ebay for the reasons explained under Ebay but try to be fair and meet somewhere in the middle taking into account fees so both buyer and seller are happy. Also I trust people more on here than the likes of Ebay. It has always worked very well for me having received and given very positive feedback.

All of the above is what forms my decision making process, which could be entirely different to someone else's when either buying or selling.

[moggi1964]

If I am putting something up for sale that is new or as good as and someone posts in a nice way to say a new or refurb version can be had for a similar price from a dealer then I appreciate that information (regular or grey). I may not change the price of mine but I can perhaps emphasise in my advert why I believe mine is worth what I am asking. It is then up to a potential buyer to decide if they feel the same.

If I am selling a used item, I would be happy for someone to point out a new or refurb can be had at a similar price but I would not expect someone to compare my price to another used one that sold on here or elsewhere. I am happy if they want to PM me and say that the general selling price seems significantly less or more than I am asking so long as it is communicated in a helpful manner and not accusative.

[Jax]

I decided to create this thread following an item being withdrawn from sale on this forum owing to comments made.

The item was withdrawn because there was no interest shown in purchasing it not because of any comments made.

Whether to ban 3rd party comments in the For Sale section is a matter for forum Administration to decide not for the membership.

I could make further comments regarding the seller and the sale in question but would no doubt get censured by Admin so I choose to refrain.

To open a thread with the sole purpose of discussing this is IMHO is creating a mountain out of a molehill and totally pointless..... but that is only my opinion.

Jax

[Tram]

The one thing I dislike is when the sale isn't wholly transparent.
For instance why not not say you got a lens/camera free in an offer and you want to make some money
None of this genuine reason for sale nonsense although I suppose making a profit is a genuine reason

[Otto]

I bought a CD from eBay, described as used but in good condition, at three quid. When it arrived it was indeed in good condition but the seller had put a sticker over a label. When I removed the sticker I found an Oxfam label saying 99p - that label peeled off easily so I shall not be buying from that seller again!

[Graham_of_Rainham]

I have deleted several “unhelpful” comments and post over the years, but the other mods were quicker at spotting them and often acted accordingly!

I would ask all members to keep comments and posts in this Sub Forum area, to questions about the items, expressing interest, etc..

Please PM any “it’s cheaper on Amazon” or whatever direct to the Originator.

As always anything that raises concerns should be notified to the MODs as we get notified of PMs

Thanks

[Wardy]

The item was withdrawn because there was no interest shown in purchasing it not because of any comments made.

Whether to ban 3rd party comments in the For Sale section is a matter for forum Administration to decide not for the membership.

I could make further comments regarding the seller and the sale in question but would no doubt get censured by Admin so I choose to refrain.

To open a thread with the sole purpose of discussing this is IMHO is creating a mountain out of a molehill and totally pointless..... but that is only my opinion.

Jax

Incorrect - the item was withdrawn by myself as I was sick of the comments which were uncalled for IMO concerning my ability to understand pricing. I’ve been on the planet long enough to know what markets are like, and indeed what sales threads are like, and nothing annoys me more than when someone with no interest whatsoever in the item for sale, takes it upon themselves to speculate as to the items worth right or wrong.
I’ve seen it so many times on other forums and I always feel for the seller in these situations as the multitude of commenting buries the sale item within all the exchanges.
I have sold items here, on Ebay, to dealers and privately so unless the OP asks for guidance on pricing etc, I suggest that the prospective’commenter’ moves on and bypasses the thread.

[Wardy]

The one thing I dislike is when the sale isn't wholly transparent.
For instance why not not say you got a lens/camera free in an offer and you want to make some money
None of this genuine reason for sale nonsense although I suppose making a profit is a genuine reason

I don’t see why one needs to state this, if the item is as described by the seller ie new, what difference does it make as to how and what they purchased it for??

[Tram]

I don’t see why one needs to state this, if the item is as described by the seller ie new, what difference does it make as to how and what they purchased it for??

I didn't say they had to or even should, but why be disingenuous, just don't say anything.

[Graham_of_Rainham]

We have not added anything to the RULES, (Reminder of the rules for using the For Sale section) as this forum is generally very cordial.
However; I will consult with Ian on adding something, if there are any further issues raised.

Thank you

[timboo]

I didn't say they had to or even should, but why be disingenuous, just don't say anything.

Whilst a questionable rationale of selling isn’t the be all and end all. I’m slightly more inclined too to agree with Tram as most people I have bought/sold to offer an honest reason without hesitation. Why not be to the point, although sentiments should have nothing to do with selling. On the rare occasion the reason was questionable a PM usually gets to the bottom of it.
Maybe a bullet pointed default format for all listings in the future may overcome this. Assuming there isn’t one already. Admin is there any way that when you do a listing it auto populates a template and seller simply fills in the gaps?

[DekHog]

As much as I like this forum, I've never liked the for sale section, although I have used it a few times.

The rules for the classifieds section on Talk Photography make much more sense to me. Must state an asking price. All offers/questions prior to purchase to be made in the thread, not by PM. Final agreed price also in the thread - it gives people a future reference point for price or issues with the item or seller.

If eBay can let you see what items have sold for, why can't we have the 'luxury' of a reference point here?

For sale threads normally go something like, Item x for sale, > PM Sent > End of thread!

[timboo]

Fair point. I did have a member ask how much I sold a lens for as they were looking to gauge the price having missed out on mine so it has its place. Maybe stating the final selling price opposed to the communications/negotiations between buyer/seller could be an option. Ebay doesn’t post communications unless the seller wants to share a question asked, which may not be covered in the original listing.

[Tram]

As much as I like this forum, I've never liked the for sale section, although I have used it a few times.

The rules for the classifieds section on Talk Photography make much more sense to me. Must state an asking price. All offers/questions prior to purchase to be made in the thread, not by PM. Final agreed price also in the thread - it gives people a future reference point for price or issues with the item or seller.

If eBay can let you see what items have sold for, why can't we have the 'luxury' of a reference point here?

For sale threads normally go something like, Item x for sale, > PM Sent > End of thread!

Also a clause preventing buying to make a quick buck elsewhere and vice versa, also other forms of profiteering at the members expense.
I have a strong suspicion one contributor to this thread is banned for what is commonly termed on there as Trading
In other words buying and selling across different forums and not contributing much else to the website in general

[blackfox]

Hmmm a can of worms everyone wants a bargain I buy and sell quite a bit on e.bay and find that I usually get a better price than elsewhere due to being brutally honest with my descriptions . even taking into account e.bay fees etc. I have successfully bought a few items via the forums but generally find that if i'm in no rush I can again often buy far cheaper on the bay ...

I rarely comment but did on the other mentioned forum a couple of days ago where someones selling a used/demo lens at the same price as amazon is for b.n.i.b with all there guarantees included ..

I'm also finding that a lot of olympus items are more than holding there S/H sale price with very few if any bargains to be had at the moment

what a lot of sellers dont take into account either is that e.bay operates a global shipping service where you just send items to there u.k depot and they then courier it on for you with fully insured continental delivery .never yet had a problem with this with cameras or lenses etc being sent abroad the low rate of the pound makes the u.k a cheap place to buy at the moment ..

[jima]

I'm not sure I can see a problem here. It is a 'For Sale/Wanted' area. It should only contain posts from the seller, potential buyers and their questions and offers to buy or confirmations. If a seller wishes to post an item twice the price of a brand new one from anywhere that is his or her prerogative as it is ours to ignore it if aware. We do not need or want self-styled forum police bleating about what better deals might be had elsewhere. I you are not a seller or potential buyer, move on, nothing to see here. I value the For Sale area and would not want to see it polluted and potentially closed down. If it gets close to that, make me a Mod and I'll clear out the dross in short order! That includes the 'buy then resell to make a fast buck' mob which I have to say has somewhat disgusted me. eBay is for the likes of you.

[Graham_of_Rainham]

Thanks James, I am of a similar mind.

[RobEW]

"We do not need or want self-styled forum police bleating about what better deals might be had elsewhere."

Utterly bizarre!

If anyone is acting as "forum police" or "bleating" it's those who are saying we shouldn't comment on sales threads.

This is a group where very often people try to help each out, often with free advice, sometimes by selling on used kit at a fair price or even offering it for nothing. In that context it's fine to help each other understand the value (in both photographic and market terms) of different pieces of kit.

[shotokan101]

Depends if you care about protecting the "community" here - personally don't have a problem with members pointing out rip-offs or under/overpricing....

jim

[RobEW]

It's generally the profiteers and dealers (who contribute little or nothing else to this forum) who don't like fair pricing comparisons to be made. Sometimes more community-oriented members accept it gracefully (even if regretfully) and reduce their asking price to be attractive, or explain why their particular copy is a good deal.