Camera stores

[pdk42]

I was in Birmingham today for my daughter and took the opportunity to pop into Wex, who are, surprisingly, open - despite Covid. They were well organised to minimise infection risk so I was happy to hang around a little. We all know that the photo retail industry is in a war of attrition - both from internet sales and also due to the general declining state of the camera market - so I try my best when possible to use them. However, I was dwelling on today's experience and there are times I wonder why I bother. Now, the people there were very friendly and very helpful, but:

- I asked to look at a Fuji XT4 and wanted to know how to set the camera up to use the dials as aperture and exp comp controls. Two guys were there and both said they weren't Fuji experts so didn't know. One of them fiddled for a while and then went off to the internet to Google it. He eventually got it to work - the key being to set the exp comp dial (separate dial) to a "C" position to disable it.

- I then thought I'd take a look at the Sony A7R iv and iii. I asked the same question and got pretty much the same response. Interestingly, the mark iv has added a new menu option to allow it, but the staff didn't know that.

- I then overheard a conversation between another customer and a member of staff. He had a GH5 and was trying to decide whether to go for the Oly 7-14 or the Panasonic Leica 8-18. He was asking two simple questions - what the LFn button on the Oly lens does and how the focus clutch mechanism would work with the GH5. The staff member said she knew nothing about micro 4/3 at all so couldn't help! I decided to step in and help!

- I asked a few other questions and they were all met with relatively blank stares.

So, I wonder sometimes what these retailers are up to. If you want to entice serious photographers into these stores, the least you can do is make sure your staff are knowledgeable. I've been into B&H in NYC a few times and they have the brands set up in their own little podia and the staff there really do know what they're doing, so it's not impossible.

[wanderer]

That sounds like what happened in climbing shops about 25 years ago.
The knowledgeable staff would not take the miserable wages and left and those who came in behind had never set foot on a hill.
Having said that, anytime I've been in Ffordes they know what they are talking about.

[timboo]

I had a strange experience with Harrison cameras today. They had the 45 f1.2 on offer at £599 so i decided to purchase it and one other lens. I wanted finance on this occasion so i could pay it off in a couple of months as i knew the price wouldnt be found that cheap anywhere else. Anyway i proceeded to checkout lens was in stock. Upon trying to complete the transaction it turned out they cant do online finance at the moment and to call them. I phoned up and the chap said the lens wasnt actually in stock and would be due in soon if i was willing to wait. I agreed and they sent me a manual set of forms to fill in. A short while later they emailed stating that the finance company do not have a procedure in place yet to deliver owing to covid.
What a farce.
Needless to say i shall not be using Harrison cameras this time or in the future.
Do feel like i am cutting off my nose to spite my face slightly though.


I have back tracked and placed an order couldnt forgive myself for not getting one at that price.

[pdk42]

£599 for the 45/1.2 is a good deal. Let the card take the strain? Paypal also offer a finance option.

[spiderwasp]

Mine arrived yesterday :-). Wasn't in stock - they had to order it.

[timboo]

Paul thats why I thought to hell with it at that price. It is a lens that is damn dear usually

[Olybirder]

Out of interest Paul, were the staff in question young? A lot of companies seem to be using younger members of staff at the moment, presumably as they are less susceptible to Covid 19. It is understandable but, unfortunately, they are not necessarily the most experienced and knowledgeable. In my previous, limited experience WEX in Norwich have been very helpful and knowledgeable.

Ron

[pdk42]

Yeah - one guy was about 20 I guess, maybe younger. The other guy was a bit older, maybe 30.

[MJ224]

They employer the "young" as that is when the young know everything...…………

Its later in life when then become aware they and all of us are still learning...………

[Point and Shoot]

In the Highlands of Scotland, we used to have Jessops in Inverness but that closed. That leaves Ffordes which is about 2 miles from my house. When I restarted my photographic journey 10 years ago, they helped me out and have done ever since. Their knowledge of cameras and photography in general is superb. I have often been in looking to buy something as I read about it in the web/mag and after discussion left with something else ; and some times nothing as I already have what I need and shown how to use it better. I have purchased quality second hand gear too as well as having mine sold too. They have seminars, workshops and meetings, all of which are quality.i am president of local camera club and they help us out too. They might be a tad more expensive in some cases versus box shifters, but they are class.

[pdk42]

It's good to have organisations like that. LCE in Leamington is pretty good actually. Better than Wex's performance today.

[wanderer]

I've found their prices very comparable.

[alfbranch]

I have had similar lack of knowledge and like you I have stepped in to answer a customers question in a camera shop before

Not as bad as the above I was in Wilkinson in Liverpool looking at 50-150 f2.8 when I held my hand out and got it to focus on my fingers, The guy said that didn't focus did it? My reply was yes it has a minimum focus of 0.7m to which he showed real surprise.

[shenstone]

I gave up asking anything in any of the camera shops in Cardiff years ago because of the same issue in not being able to find anyone who knew anything about anything

Regards
Andy

[wornish]

Can I raise flag on this thread?

How much gross margin do people think camera stores live on?

Take that number and the deduct expenses like council tax *or business rates" and lease costs for the store.
Then deduct staff salaries. Then after all that, they have to pay tax on their net profits!

Then let's compare with Amazon.
They offer the exact same product, pay minimum wages, don't have any high street presence and DONT pay anything like the same taxes. I wonder why local high street businesses are in decline

It really winds me up that our government just sit and have allowed this to go on and on and on.....

Yes, I know this site gets a small reward for referring people to buy a product through Amazon, but you can't have your cake and eat it as the saying goes.

So, IMHO it's unfair to complain about the lack of knowledgeable staff. Hows the chat contact on Amazon?

Is it also unfair to compare WEX/ Wilkinsons etc who only have a few comparatively small stores across the UK with B&H in NYC who only have their one megastore for the whole of the USA. AFAIK?

[shenstone]

All fair points, but in my opinion the downskilling started before the online systems came to the fore. I remember giving up on Jessops back in the 1980s

[pdk42]

Actually Dave, I agree with you entirely. We (and by "we" I don't just mean the UK, it's a problem in the whole Western world) have let on-line commerce destroy traditional retail. And that has a nasty impact on our high streets and our culture. It's the usual laisez faire free-market stuff. But then again, when governments have intervened in the past, they've managed to balls it up quite spectacularly (British Leyland anyone?).

[MJ224]

I'll just stick up for a couple of local camera shops I know, specifically Carmarthen Cameras, and Camera Centre in Cardiff. Both shops are stuffed full of new and old cameras gear, plus accessories. I think both have on-line stuff as well. and not least expertise....

Surprisingly, John Lewis in Cardiff also did quite well. They only have a tiny proper camera section, but they had a Fuji rep there, who was very good. (Bought a Leica for the wife) but the Fuji did look and feel nice...

Just my 2p worth....

[Phill D]

You bought a Leica for the wife.....true love

[blackfox]

I have 3 shops within travelling range and they all employ knowledgeable long term staff ,and I’m on first name terms with most of them , prices can sometimes be OTT compared to online , and part exchanging can be a minefield . But I try to support them as much as possible .

[DerekC]

I agree with a number of the points put on this thread, but I have some thoughts on this

We all know the camera market is getting smaller. iPhone and others have had a big affect on this. You look at a lot of the young they do everything with the phone. Many don't even buy a watch these days.

Many shops do employ young staff. Often because as has been said the margins are low.
I days gone by some used working in the shop as a stepping stone to furthering their photographic career.

Most of their time is spent processing sales and not selling.
Some not all are photographers, which is a lot lower than the percentage which used to work in reatil shops.

Cameras don'r have a long shelf life, something new is brought to the market frequently. Pre-digital cameras like the OM4 went on for many year unchanged. So they got used to how they worked.
The key point they was were simple and all very similar to operate.

This is by no means unique to the camera market. Try asking shop staff about a laptop spec or a car saleman about details of the car.
We have asked question in shops only for the staff to read off the side of the box. Which we have already done.
I worked in the motor trade motorbikes, cars and trucks for years, and most sales staff didn't have a clue about what they were selling.

Myself I have had some good experience in shops. My closest town Doncaster no longer has a photographic shop, so I have to travel. Sheffield-Harrison, Hull-Hilton, Cleethorpes-Conley's or Lincoln-LCE. I travel to Lincoln alot as my family is there, I have found they have a good knowledge, which was helped by the fact he was an Olympus user. LCE onine service is good. Not used Harrison's shop as going into Sheffield is a pain so much eaisier to go the the others. I have had great service from both Hilton and Conley. Conley is a great camera shop with very knowledgeable staff. You can when you've beenthere have an ice cream and a walk on the beach.

I know some do buy cameras/lens from Amazon, but I personally don't as I want to support camera shops. My current Olympus gear came from Hilton and LCE. Shops with in 40 minutes to 1 hour from home.

The plus point I would say Olympus support their dealers very well. Their in store customer events are very good. They have contiune to support the dealers and customer during lockdown with some excellent online events.

[DerekW]

I think you used to use Tokarski's in Lincoln about 15 years ago . I used to work there as a Saturday and summer holidays person in 1960, 1961. My specialism was loading film cameras for happy wedding guests who had taken 8 or 12 pictures and had run out of film. My best day was winning a bet with the customer that I could change a film for them in less than certain time. I did and got a nice tip.

[DerekC]

Yes I did. I used to work just down the high streey from Tokarski's at F K Sharpe. It was a sad day when David closed the shop. I bought all my pre digital Olympus and digital up to E-3 from Tokarski. As an apprentice motorcycle mechanic I used to go to Curtis the butches next to get tea break sausage rolls and egg custards. I didn't mind as it gave me time to pop into Tokarski.

[DerekW]

George Tokarski was in charge and Mrs T did the spotting on the B&W prints they made for the wedding albums. David joined Tokarskis during my last summer there in 1961 (I think). I think my father worked at the motor cycle garage just to the north of Toks in the 1920s (100 years ago - wow)

[dogs100]

I am lucky in having an Olympus dealer in Barnstaple although God knows how they will cope with the present crisis. The staff there are knowledgeable across the board and tend to have their areas of expertise for the more esoteric matters, and have a print specialist ... but ... I have been in there many times when people walk in, handle the stock, ask questions and then walk out to buy online. I tend to willingly pay the small extra purchase cost for the benefit of the future advice.

[Melaka]

SRS in Watford is our nearest, apart from a small Jessops, and they are always knowledgeable about Olympus.

[Barr1e]

SRS in Watford is our nearest, apart from a small Jessops, and they are always knowledgeable about Olympus.

Another vote for SRS.