Focussing Issues with the E3

[art frames]

Re: Focussing Issues with the E3

Having watched this issue whilst experiencing my own problems I keep monitoring all of the sites i know of and, finally, some of the folks at DPReview have actually calmed down enough to admit they can see the issue.

So for those in doubt here is a useful picture of the issue from one of the seniors there and some good discussion around it. http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/re...ssage=26529120. A good picture is worth a 1000 words,

For those not noticing it 'good for you'. But I would say telling us that isn't a great help and would ask you to accept this post is not for you. You take different pictures or have different technique. And cameras do seem to vary. My replacement camera is substantially better but still produces the occasional very soft pictures and some really OOF ones but is very much better on average at the moment. I am fine when I can use AF with manual adjustment. But in many circumstances that isn't practical. Sharp focus is a critical issue to me. And I have tried every setting. If you read the thread you'll know that.

I am now waiting for an upgrade to the AF system which must be due. There are also a few gremlins beyond focus to kill.

I don't wish to create an issue where there isn't one but I do want Olympus to know it needs fixing - and I hope PeterD's camera is OK now.

Peter

[Ray Shotter]

Re: Focussing Issues with the E3

Having watched this issue whilst experiencing my own problems I keep monitoring all of the sites i know of and, finally, some of the folks at DPReview have actually calmed down enough to admit they can see the issue.

So for those in doubt here is a useful picture of the issue from one of the seniors there and some good discussion around it. http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/re...ssage=26529120. A good picture is worth a 1000 words,

For those not noticing it 'good for you'. But I would say telling us that isn't a great help and would ask you to accept this post is not for you. You take different pictures or have different technique. And cameras do seem to vary. My replacement camera is substantially better but still produces the occasional very soft pictures and some really OOF ones but is very much better on average at the moment. I am fine when I can use AF with manual adjustment. But in many circumstances that isn't practical. Sharp focus is a critical issue to me. And I have tried every setting. If you read the thread you'll know that.

I am now waiting for an upgrade to the AF system which must be due. There are also a few gremlins beyond focus to kill.

I don't wish to create an issue where there isn't one but I do want Olympus to know it needs fixing - and I hope PeterD's camera is OK now.

Peter

Sorry to read you are still having problems with the E-3's AF. I read the DP Review comments you referred to above. There are plenty of views being expressed - some with obvious frustration that others don't seem to understand the problem described. However, it seems clear that some are having AF problems and some are not. I tried the "fence approach" myself using a trellis at about 45 degrees to the camera in our garden as the target for successive shots at different uprights (approximately 8 inches apart) and had no problems using centre spot focus and exposure. However, I did have one OOF shot but it was clear I had overlapped the target area of my previous shot. I have come to what I suppose is an obvious conclusion that the red centre square is clearly not the limit of the focus area when using centre spot focusing but more likely the circle around the centre spot. Consequently, if the second target is still within this circle it seems that the AF may not register a change but will still bleep. However, as I have written previously, the absence of any lens focus movement or the "whirr" of the lens and camera should alert me to the possibility that the AF has not re-focussed on the new target and I am still focussed on the previous target.

I fully appreciate that my experience is different to yours and it does appear that you have a real problem which needs solving. Maybe a firmware update will be the answer.

Ray.

[art frames]

Re: Focussing Issues with the E3

I have come to what I suppose is an obvious conclusion that the red centre square is clearly not the limit of the focus area when using centre spot focusing but more likely the circle around the centre spot.

Ray.

Ray

I would say that this is clear when you test and I agree. The hard to test but observable fact is that if the AF doesn't like the focus target in that circle then that can be soft when other parts of the frame will be sharp. Whether that is because other focus targets are used (despite it being set to single target) or through chance I cannot tell. I still get those and wish I'd been able to tweak the focus. But sometimes you can't.

I would observe that plenty of soft shots are being posted on other forums as supposedly really sharp examples. I just like it to be as good as I can get.

I have stopped testing and just take pictures. I am doing it with a heightened sense of awareness to the sorts of signals you speak of and also refocus two or three times when I can. Which defeats this fastest autofocus claim but helps. I'd like a new mode. Slow but accurate.

Peter

[ptomsu]

Re: Focussing Issues with the E3

Seeing all the issues which came up in the last weeks with E-3 focus I can only be happy that I got rid of mine some weeks ago already. The focus issue turns out to be a system bug, also nobody here seems to want to admit this. And this system bug is even more serious, as obviously it appears in some cameras, while lot of others are working perfectly. So this makes it pretty difficult to overcome in production.

Although I also owned the 12-60, which has as well focusing issues as is admitted meanwhile by Olympus, it is not really encouraging to see that these failures occur with new products on the market.

Not very great theater Olympus has set up for their flagship product

[theMusicMan]

Re: Focussing Issues with the E3

Seeing all the issues which came up in the last weeks with E-3 focus I can only be happy that I got rid of mine some weeks ago already. The focus issue turns out to be a system bug, also nobody here seems to want to admit this. And this system bug is even more serious, as obviously it appears in some cameras, while lot of others are working perfectly. So this makes it pretty difficult to overcome in production.

Although I also owned the 12-60, which has as well focusing issues as is admitted meanwhile by Olympus, it is not really encouraging to see that these failures occur with new products on the market.

Not very great theater Olympus has set up for their flagship product

Hi ptomsu

Where does it say anywhere that the alleged focus issue is a system bug? I don't have a focus issue and have some pin sharp images taken already.

Also, if it is a bug - then it isn't a hardware issue and can be fixed, yeah...?

[OlyFlyer]

Re: Focussing Issues with the E3

A system for me is both the hardware AND the firmware. Unfortunatelly, I have to agree, I am now convinced it is a system bug. Some can live with it, others can not. How Olympus is going to solve this, I have no idea. I doubt it is so simple and small that it can be neglected. My camera is only one week old and after about 1k images I am convinced it has problems, and I am also quite sure it is in every camera. If it can be fixed via firmware it is good, if not it is a sad tragedy. I have my faith in Olympus and really believe they are going to come out alive and fix it for everybody who seem to have the problem.

Anyway, that world's fastest AF is not much to be proud of. I wish my E-3 had the accuracy of my E-500, even if the speed would be the same as well. Now we got the speed, but we miss a whole lot of images due to bad focus. As a matter of fact, I spent the last two or three weeks analyzing images, both my own and others. I am about to write a report to Oly and hopefully will convince them and point them to the actual issue which they seem to be unable to find. They can have access to all my images as well, in a hope that it will help them to identify and fix the problem. I see no reason to stick our heads in the sand like an oystrich.

[photo_owl]

Re: Focussing Issues with the E3

"My camera is only one week old and after about 1k images I am convinced it has problems, and I am also quite sure it is in every camera"

Pleased to see your committment to assisting Oly establish and resolve this.

I too agree that it's a system - and quite a complex one at that. If the 12-60 hadn't been launched at the same time progress might have been faster - equally some more detailed technical specifications on the AF would have helped many understand the 'what' and 'how'. Finally the obvious issues around the lens release area and associated contact switch components clearly needs to be resolved - this one may be a combination design and QC issue.

What disappoints me the most is the clear failure of whatever UT was implemented.

[Jim Ford]

Re: Focussing Issues with the E3

I've followed the various 'focusing issue' threads on several forums with interest - and a little apprehension.

I've had my E3 and 12-60mm SWD lens for a couple of months now and honestly can't say I've noticed any focusing problems - am I doing something wrong?

I'm not suggesting it's in postings on this site, but on other sites I've detected 'focusing postings' verging on hysteria!

Maybe I'm not looking at my images critically enough. Maybe I should shoot carefully designed and set up focusing targets, in near laboratory conditions, at various distances at maximum apertures, and closely examine the results?

I don't think so - I go out and shoot images in the 'real world' and so far the only 'complaint' I have about my E3 is that its considerably heavier than my E500 - but then it's considerably more of camera!

So far I've only printed images up to A4 and they look pretty sharp and in focus where I want it to be, to me. I feel that they will easily match the sharpness of 20x30 prints taken with my E500, if I should get them enlarged to that size.

FWIW my body serial number is D70503240 and 12-60mm lens 230004514. Maybe this will be of help for any on this forum that are researching the 'problem'.

Jim

[OlyFlyer]

Re: Focussing Issues with the E3

Jim, I gave up the serial number discussion. I am convinced it is not the answer. By the way, my camera is D70510492 for what its worth.

Anyway, I am happy I did not get the 12-60.

I think if you shoot wide open you will see what I mean. Take a few hundred images of stationary objects, let the camera to focus again and again, variing the distance, but not moving a lot. Correct lighting and exposure is important. I am quite sure the success rate will be about 70-80% which IMO is bad. In that situation, my E-500 would have given 100% hit rate.

I just taken a whole evening, portraits and macro using the 50mm, and the hit rate is about 50%. All taken after beep, shutter priority off, center AF point, sensitivity small, FL-50 used. This is very bad, considering I just used my E-500 in a similar way about three weeks ago with almost 100% keepers. The only non-keepers from that shooting was the ones I messed up due to hand shake.

Something is definitely not as supposed to be, and I am actually almost there to point at what it is...

[dennisg]

Re: Focussing Issues with the E3

I have just read that Olympus UK has sent out a service annoucement fir their new 12-60 F2.8 lens that is having focusing problems. The link is:

http://www.olympus.co.uk/consumer/208_18859.htm

They claim that there is a small amount of first run production lenses that have this problem and that they are offering all of those with those numbers with serial numbers affected free service to correct this problem.

I really hope that this is the end of this topic for all of us who are interested in upgrading to this model and lens.

Dennis G

[ptomsu]

Re: Focussing Issues with the E3

This flaw, or call it system bug, or call it whatever you want, has obviously nothing to do with serial numbers. It is a principle bug somewhere in the design of the AF system, especially its capabilities under low light, low contrast and very bright light (as having direct spots shining into your picture).

I have tested these with my E-3, 12-60 and also non Oly FT glass, like the 1,4/25. Most sad thing is, that Panasonic made Oly responsible for not focussing correctly, while Oly said the same about Pana, when I approached both with my 1,4/24 and E-3 issues. This is an open standard and an open system? Come on, give me a break, this is fighting problems of design, FW or whatever on the back of the customer

So while the new Oly flagship E-3 has a serious bug, at least serious enough for photographers who ask accurate, fast and consistent reliable focusing from their system, these issues also prove that the whole FT system standard idea is not more than lipwork and marketing. In theory it should work, in praxis it does not today, not even on simple things like AF ....

Sorry, but this cannot be called professional and by no means a professional system. I have lost my trust in Oly and the whole FT story.

[theMusicMan]

Re: Focussing Issues with the E3

Hey ptomsu

You really like bashing Olympus and the E-3 don't you.

If, as you continually suggest, there was or is a bug with the E-3, then surely all E-3's would be experiencing similar issues - and as I have said several times before (and also directly to you too); I, and the majority of other E-3 owners have no issues whatsoever with our cameras. I cannot comment about the 12-60 as I don't own that particular lens, the 11-22 and 14-54 cover the range I tend to use fairly well so I am not considering any change.

Or, are you suggesting that the alleged 'principle bug' (c'mon, make your mind up will you please about what you're gonna refer to it as, hehe... ) is a totally random one, appearing when it wants to, every now and then, in an arbitrary manner...?

Sure, you have allegedly had a bad experience with your [now sold] E-3, did you wait for any firmware upgrade to see if that resolved the issue...? Did you change the lens as Olympus is now requesting...? Did you persevere with experimentation and controls/conditions - on the slight chance that we're [i.e. the 'royalNote to all: reminder of the 'Quick Links > User Control Panel > Miscellaneous > Buddy / Ignore Lists" feature...

[ptomsu]

Re: Focussing Issues with the E3

@John

the desperate words of somebody who is still running the E-3?

Never mind, if you do not notice the difference, it is much easier for you.

If you would have followed your own camera forums, you would have noticed which issues still exist. Talking yourself into dreams will help you for sure, but will never help the issue as such being resolved.

So what folks like you are doing is rather damaging Olympus reputation, than anything else, which Oly would need now. Shame!

And even more shame on you as you do not dare to publish your full name. Acting as ANONYMO is always easy. I am done with people who I am not knowing who I communicate to. Feeling really sorry for you!

[theMusicMan]

Re: Focussing Issues with the E3

@Peter - I am hardly anonymous on the net matey... I own and run a forum with over 500,000 posts, delivering 20,000,000 pages per month, and over 10,000 members. I can hardly be anonymous can I...? Besides, my own www site gives my contact details.

I have no problem telling you you're acting ridiculously, in a childish manner, and will add you to my ignore list.

John Burns - how's that.

@Ian: You may wish to deal with this troll in an appropriate manner.

[ptomsu]

Re: Focussing Issues with the E3

@Peter - I am hardly anonymous on the net matey... I own and run a forum with over 500,000 posts, delivering 20,000,000 pages per month, and over 10,000 members. I can hardly be anonymous can I...? Besides, my own www site gives my contact details.

I have no problem telling you you're acting ridiculously, in a childish manner, and will add you to my ignore list.

John Burns - how's that.

@Ian: You may wish to deal with this troll in an appropriate manner.

Best thing John to add me to your ignore list.

@Ian: I would highly recommend to let this guy know that I am NOT a troll. I do not want to discuss about the other things he is telling me.