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The lounge Relax, take a break from photo and camera talk - have a chat about something else for a change. Just keep it clean and polite!

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  #16  
Old 13th July 2019
Walti Walti is offline
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Re: Climate Change - Latest

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Can someone please explain why if we reduce our 2% to zero the climate will stop changing when everyone else carries on.
Without global adoption of this obviously our current contribution to the worlds CO2 output makes little difference, however our historic contribution dwarfs the rest of the world, so in a moral argument we cannot expect the rest of the world to get its house in order if we do not. As I said in the previous post it still makes economic sense to carry on as well.
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Old 13th July 2019
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Re: Climate Change - Latest

The experts 25 years ago were confidently predicting that global temperatures would rise. The majority of scientists agreed and all the data was peer reviewed so their predictions must be right. Oh dear, temperatures actually fell!

OK, we better start calling it something else, let's use Climate Change.

Now it seems to be morphing again into pollution.

I have no issues whatsoever with cleaning up our act and stopping our pollution like plastic waste, unnecessary packaging, etc. That is without doubt man-made.

My issue is with reducing our CO2 emissions to achieve exactly zero effect.

Farm animals emit CO2 so do we all now become vegetarians as some are suggesting?

Following that logic seeing as how humans emit CO2 when we breath, do we all stop breathing then?
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Old 13th July 2019
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Re: Climate Change - Latest

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Originally Posted by Walti View Post
Without global adoption of this obviously our current contribution to the worlds CO2 output makes little difference, however our historic contribution dwarfs the rest of the world, so in a moral argument we cannot expect the rest of the world to get its house in order if we do not. As I said in the previous post it still makes economic sense to carry on as well.


I would love to see the figures that show it makes economic sense. The jobs created by building wind farms and electric cars etc are spread globally.

I would also like to see the plans to recycle all the Lithium batteries that will be needed.
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Old 13th July 2019
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Re: Climate Change - Latest

I don’t think there is any doubt that the temperatures have increased, the difficulty is demonstrating that in a convincing manner. The global averages have shown very small changes year on year so it is difficult to see properly without long term evidence.

With regard to CO2 output obviously a totally vegan population would make a difference in the number of animals bred and farmed... Changes of this nature are too big! I certainly have no intention of becoming a vegan! However it is realistic to expect that in two or three generations changes of that magnitude are possible (whether it is right or not is a different discussion)

I accept that your views do not see the sense in what is going on around you, but ignoring the ethical arguments or the scaremongering then we are in a better place as a country if we go forward with these changes, so finding a way of making the best for yourself - even if it taking a few quid of your energy bills - I would encourage you to try!
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Old 13th July 2019
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Re: Climate Change - Latest

More “Scandinavians” saying things that don’t always add up...

Bit like a Swedish school girl not flying while her family has big dogs that create an even bigger carbon footprint (paw print) than CO2/passenger/km of a modern aircraft.
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Old 13th July 2019
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Re: Climate Change - Latest

The economic arguments are quite widespread, but let me share some numbers in going green from my own experience:

For the cost of circa £2M per annum for 10 years one of the companies I have worked with have reduced their energy bills by circa £40M per annum! So a return in investment which outstrips any other form of investment around - imagine taking that level of cost out of a companies overheads - it goes straight on the bottom line as profit!

The rare earths argument is a valid one and there is a lot of work going into alternate technologies for energy storage to remove our current reliance in a non-sustainable technology. Again from my own experience LiIo batteries have their place at the moment but work using lower impact and less polluting alternates are already in place.
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Old 13th July 2019
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Re: Climate Change - Latest

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Originally Posted by wornish View Post
Can someone please explain why if we reduce our 2% to zero the climate will stop changing when everyone else carries on.
A bit like saying: what's the point of sticking to the 70 mph motorway limit, when everyone else is exceeding it.

Jim
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  #23  
Old 13th July 2019
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Re: Climate Change - Latest

We can try to set an example......🙁
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Old 13th July 2019
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Re: Climate Change - Latest

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The experts 25 years ago were confidently predicting that global temperatures would rise. The majority of scientists agreed and all the data was peer reviewed so their predictions must be right. Oh dear, temperatures actually fell!
Can you cite your evidence that temperatures have fallen?
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  #25  
Old 13th July 2019
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Re: Climate Change - Latest

The article only says that low cloud cover has a correlation with temp rise. It does not say one causes the other.
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Old 13th July 2019
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Re: Climate Change - Latest

Aircraft contrails?
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  #27  
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Re: Climate Change - Latest

Apparently there was a measured effect in Australian evaporation pans post the 9/11 worldwide no fly order.
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  #28  
Old 13th July 2019
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Re: Climate Change - Latest

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Apparently there was a measured effect in Australian evaporation pans post the 9/11 worldwide no fly order.
Yes, I think it’s been seen since, I seem to remember something a few years ago and the sky was noticeably free from cloud.
Not that I have any intention to give up air travel while I can still afford (and be arsed with) it.
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Old 13th July 2019
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Re: Climate Change - Latest

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I'd bet that there will be detailed rebuttals of it by the wider community over the next few days.
https://climatefeedback.org/claimrev...lobal-warming/

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Timothy Osborn, Professor, University of East Anglia, and Director of Research, Climatic Research Unit:
The unpublished paper by Kauppinen & Malmi is deeply flawed and the claims that (1) CO2 has caused only 0.1 degC of warming and that (2) only 10% (0.01 degC) of this warming is from human activity are both unsupported claims.

The paper should not be relied upon.

Their claims are based on a chain of reasoning with multiple flaws:
(1) They claim that climate models cannot be relied upon but do not demonstrate this.
(2) They instead make a new climate model (despite this being in contradiction of (1)).
(3) Their new climate model is unvalidated. It is based upon datasets of cloud and humidity without any sources given and which are not up-to-date. They provide no assessment of the accuracy of the data used—these variables are very difficult to measure on a global basis over the time period used. No physical basis is given for their new climate model (e.g. no process is given for how higher relative humidity can make the globe cool).
(4) They fail to consider cause and effect. For example, they assume without any support that a decrease in relative humidity is natural. They give no reasons why it would have decreased. They fail to consider whether climate change could have caused relative humidity to change.

(5) They state without any support that most of the atmospheric CO2 increase is due to emissions from the oceans. They ignore anthropogenic CO2 emissions which are more than large enough to explain the full increase. They ignore observational evidence that shows that the oceans are net sinks of CO2 at present, not net sources.
(6) They dismiss the entire body of climate science—especially that there is a significant greenhouse effect—and instead cite their own work (unpublished or published in journals outside the field).

In reality there is strong scientific evidence for conclusions in stark contrast to those of Kauppinen and Malmi, namely that (a) all of the CO2 rise is from human activity, (b) that 100% of the CO2-induced warming is therefore anthropogenic, and (c) that (together with anthropogenic emissions of other greenhouse gases like methane) the total anthropogenic warming is around 1 degC.
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  #30  
Old 13th July 2019
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Re: Climate Change - Latest

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Can you cite your evidence that temperatures have fallen?
I'll assume from your lack of response Dave they you're struggling to find any. I'll give you instead one of several published by NOAA:



Source: https://www.climate.gov/news-feature...ng-past-decade
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