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  • Amazon Boycott

    Worth a read before you click "Buy Now"



    Jax

  • #2
    Re: Amazon Boycott

    Because of concerns about the legality of some of the comments in this post it was temporarily taken into moderation and was not visible while this took place. It has been reinstated but requires qualification, which I have provided. - Ian

    As far as I am concerned Amazon is a 'supplier of last resort' for a great many reasons. They also sell a lot of substandard and counterfeit goods including memory cards and computer software.

    Amazon's track record for employee welfare is about on par with Mike Ashley's Sports Direct (which is also on my 'supplier of last resort' list); but what few buyers realise is that Amazon, along with eBay charge suppliers punitive selling fees and impose impossible foreign exchange rates on them. It usually doesn't take a genius to track down the original supplier to buy directly.

    The fact that Amazon and eBay pay virtually no tax in the UK provides another good reason to boycott them.

    The irony is that the most vociferous opponents of Brexit and those who wish a Labour government upon us 'to protect workers rights' are often the first to click Amazon's 'Buy Now' button.
    Last edited by Ian; 3rd December 2019, 07:23 PM.
    ---------------

    Naughty Nigel


    Difficult is worth doing

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Amazon Boycott

      Well it seems the linked Grauniad article has been edited (shortened) since this morning (and my original post deleted for me). Who would have thought the Grauniad could be bought by the world's richest man?
      ---------------

      Naughty Nigel


      Difficult is worth doing

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Amazon Boycott

        Who ever would have though the lefties would side with such an odious organisation?
        ---------------

        Naughty Nigel


        Difficult is worth doing

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Amazon Boycott

          Originally posted by Naughty Nigel View Post
          As far as I am concerned Amazon is a 'supplier of last resort' for a great many reasons. They also sell a lot of substandard and counterfeit goods including memory cards and computer software.

          Amazon's track record for employee welfare is about on par with Mike Ashley's Sports Direct (which is also on my 'supplier of last resort' list); but what few buyers realise is that Amazon, along with eBay charge suppliers punitive selling fees and impose impossible foreign exchange rates on them. It usually doesn't take a genius to track down the original supplier to buy directly.

          The fact that Amazon and eBay pay virtually no tax in the UK provides another good reason to boycott them.

          The irony is that the most vociferous opponents of Brexit and those who wish a Labour government upon us 'to protect workers rights' are often the first to click Amazon's 'Buy Now' button.
          Founder and editor of:
          Olympus UK E-System User Group (http://e-group.uk.net)
          Four Thirds User (http://fourthirds-user.com)
          Digital Photography Now (http://dpnow.com)
          Olympus camera, lens, and accessory hire (http://e-group.uk.net/hire)

          Twitter: www.twitter.com/ian_burley
          Flickr: www.flickr.com/photos/dpnow/
          Pinterest: www.pinterest.com/ianburley/
          NEW: My personal BLOG ianburley.com
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          • #6
            Re: Amazon Boycott

            Originally posted by Naughty Nigel View Post
            Well it seems the linked Grauniad article has been edited (shortened) since this morning (and my original post deleted for me). Who would have thought the Grauniad could be bought by the world's richest man?
            As explained above, your post was not deleted - it was put into moderation. It has now been reinstated but serious concerns about the direction of comments in this thread have had to be aired.

            Ian
            Founder and editor of:
            Olympus UK E-System User Group (http://e-group.uk.net)
            Four Thirds User (http://fourthirds-user.com)
            Digital Photography Now (http://dpnow.com)
            Olympus camera, lens, and accessory hire (http://e-group.uk.net/hire)

            Twitter: www.twitter.com/ian_burley
            Flickr: www.flickr.com/photos/dpnow/
            Pinterest: www.pinterest.com/ianburley/
            NEW: My personal BLOG ianburley.com
            sigpic

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            • #7
              Re: Amazon Boycott

              Originally posted by Jax
              Perhaps Jeff Bezos is an Olympus user and donates to the Forum ?

              Even if that was the case, to censor posts that criticise Amazon is frankly beyond belief or understanding.


              Jax
              Your comment is quite frankly ridiculous, in no part funny certainly and uncalled for.

              We don't censor posts let alone because they criticise Amazon. Please take the time to read my explanation in full.

              Ian
              Founder and editor of:
              Olympus UK E-System User Group (http://e-group.uk.net)
              Four Thirds User (http://fourthirds-user.com)
              Digital Photography Now (http://dpnow.com)
              Olympus camera, lens, and accessory hire (http://e-group.uk.net/hire)

              Twitter: www.twitter.com/ian_burley
              Flickr: www.flickr.com/photos/dpnow/
              Pinterest: www.pinterest.com/ianburley/
              NEW: My personal BLOG ianburley.com
              sigpic

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Amazon Boycott

                Originally posted by Ian View Post

                And let me address a few points.

                Amazon itself deals with reputable wholesalers and direct with brands. It's very unlikely that Amazon sells counterfeit products directly. But Amazon does have its 'Marketplace' of independent sellers. Problems with goods supplied by these vendors are dealt with by Amazon very effectively.

                Secondly, I would like to know how Nigel knows with certainty who uses Amazon in the context of their views on employment practices?


                Ian
                Amazon may well deal with reputable wholesalers but all too often it isn't clear at the point of purchase whether one is dealing with Amazon themselves or a third party (Marketplace) supplier.

                I have personally been supplied with counterfeit software by Amazon. I purchased the full Adobe Acrobat Professional suite for a considerable sum of money genuinely believing it was the official package from Adobe. The packaging appeared genuine but the activation code provided with the software was counterfeit and could not be activated. This was confirmed by Adobe support personnel.

                Amazon initially put me in contact with their supplier in the Far East who provided yet more counterfeit activation codes so I requested a full refund. Obtaining that refund was not easy with Amazon claiming they had 'policies' concerning computer software that had already been installed. I contacted my credit card company who forced a refund but I was then threatened with legal action by Amazon. I asked them to take me to court whereupon they promptly cancelled the purchase and closed the case.

                (Amazon, like eBay, don't refund from their own pocket; it has to come from the supplier. If the supplier disappears you have to whistle.)

                Another irritation is that as a VAT registered business we expect to reclaim VAT on purchases on VAT liable purchases, but obtaining a proper VAT receipt from Amazon is very hit and miss - again it depends on the supplier and where they are located, even though the purchase is within the UK. Clearly there is something amiss there.

                On an entirely different topic we purchased a camping (gas) stove from Amazon that was dangerous as it burnt with a yellow tipped flame, left sooty deposits on the base of the kettle and emitted dangerous levels of CO. It wasn't CE marked and clearly hadn't been tested for safety or EU compliance by Amazon or anyone else before being offered for sale. If used in a confined space such as a tent these things could easily kill. I contacted Amazon but they showed no interest at all beyond offering a refund when they should have been issuing a full product recall. I have bought nothing else from Amazon since. (This was before the scale of their tax evasion became clear.)

                With regard to knowing who uses Amazon one can only take people's word for it; but many people do claim to use the company while at the same time condemning the business practices of such organisations. Given the sheer size of the Amazon business, their declared turnover and profits and the amount of tax we are told by politicians they should be paying, we can only deduce that they are selling to all sectors of society including those who claim to abhor their business practices.

                As for 'being prosecuted' for discussing the shoddy practices of these big American corporates, I think you are confusing criminal prosecution with civil action which is entirely different. In any case I cannot see how the owner of a public forum can be held liable for the opinions of its members.
                ---------------

                Naughty Nigel


                Difficult is worth doing

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Amazon Boycott

                  Looking forward to watching the footie on Amazon Prime video tomorrow.
                  Kindle is really good too and I have always found their customer service to be excellent.

                  Unlike that bastion of bullshit John Lewis
                  Took them nearly a month to admit they had lost my Samsung Galaxy mobile.
                  It was there for repair under warranty and they kept saying it was with Samsung
                  Then the coffee machine that was a replace on return to base in case of breakdown
                  Kept insisting it had to be repaired, finally got them to admit it after I recorded a telephone call

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Amazon Boycott

                    Originally posted by Tram View Post
                    Looking forward to watching the footie on Amazon Prime video tomorrow.
                    Kindle is really good too and I have always found their customer service to be excellent.
                    Thank you Mr Tram. You have just proved the evidence that I needed.

                    I have no further questions M'lud.
                    ---------------

                    Naughty Nigel


                    Difficult is worth doing

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Amazon Boycott

                      Originally posted by Jax
                      I would have read it if it had been posted prior to mine

                      Whether it was ridiculous or uncalled for is a matter of opinion and you are of course entitled to such opinion as we all are.

                      Removing or putting posts into moderation because they cast a possible bad light on a company you hope to approach for revenue is, in my opinion, still censorship but as you are the forum owner and I have no wish to be banned, we will have to agree to differ on that point.

                      Best regards,

                      Jax
                      Don't obfuscate. My explanation was crystal clear and despite this you persist in implying I wish to protect my relationship with Amazon for financial or business reasons. That is nonsense.

                      There was serious concern that Nigel's comments could invite action that threatened this site. It was certainly not that we wanted to, somehow, protect a giant retail organisation - which is laughable.

                      Ian
                      Founder and editor of:
                      Olympus UK E-System User Group (http://e-group.uk.net)
                      Four Thirds User (http://fourthirds-user.com)
                      Digital Photography Now (http://dpnow.com)
                      Olympus camera, lens, and accessory hire (http://e-group.uk.net/hire)

                      Twitter: www.twitter.com/ian_burley
                      Flickr: www.flickr.com/photos/dpnow/
                      Pinterest: www.pinterest.com/ianburley/
                      NEW: My personal BLOG ianburley.com
                      sigpic

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Amazon Boycott

                        Originally posted by Naughty Nigel View Post
                        Thank you Mr Tram. You have just proved the evidence that I needed.

                        I have no further questions M'lud.
                        Trouble is no one cares apart from you and your acolyte.
                        Are you a mind reader now too, how do you know what my political party of choice is or for that matter how I voted in the referendum

                        You know what assume makes don't you?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Amazon Boycott

                          Originally posted by Naughty Nigel View Post
                          Amazon may well deal with reputable wholesalers but all too often it isn't clear at the point of purchase whether one is dealing with Amazon themselves or a third party (Marketplace) supplier.

                          I have personally been supplied with counterfeit software by Amazon. I purchased the full Adobe Acrobat Professional suite for a considerable sum of money genuinely believing it was the official package from Adobe. The packaging appeared genuine but the activation code provided with the software was counterfeit and could not be activated. This was confirmed by Adobe support personnel.

                          Amazon initially put me in contact with their supplier in the Far East who provided yet more counterfeit activation codes so I requested a full refund. Obtaining that refund was not easy with Amazon claiming they had 'policies' concerning computer software that had already been installed. I contacted my credit card company who forced a refund but I was then threatened with legal action by Amazon. I asked them to take me to court whereupon they promptly cancelled the purchase and closed the case.

                          (Amazon, like eBay, don't refund from their own pocket; it has to come from the supplier. If the supplier disappears you have to whistle.)

                          Another irritation is that as a VAT registered business we expect to reclaim VAT on purchases on VAT liable purchases, but obtaining a proper VAT receipt from Amazon is very hit and miss - again it depends on the supplier and where they are located, even though the purchase is within the UK. Clearly there is something amiss there.

                          On an entirely different topic we purchased a camping (gas) stove from Amazon that was dangerous as it burnt with a yellow tipped flame, left sooty deposits on the base of the kettle and emitted dangerous levels of CO. It wasn't CE marked and clearly hadn't been tested for safety or EU compliance by Amazon or anyone else before being offered for sale. If used in a confined space such as a tent these things could easily kill. I contacted Amazon but they showed no interest at all beyond offering a refund when they should have been issuing a full product recall. I have bought nothing else from Amazon since. (This was before the scale of their tax evasion became clear.)

                          With regard to knowing who uses Amazon one can only take people's word for it; but many people do claim to use the company while at the same time condemning the business practices of such organisations. Given the sheer size of the Amazon business, their declared turnover and profits and the amount of tax we are told by politicians they should be paying, we can only deduce that they are selling to all sectors of society including those who claim to abhor their business practices.

                          As for 'being prosecuted' for discussing the shoddy practices of these big American corporates, I think you are confusing criminal prosecution with civil action which is entirely different. In any case I cannot see how the owner of a public forum can be held liable for the opinions of its members.
                          My moderators need to be certain that the members don't bring this site into disrepute. It's personally reasonable for a post containing statements that cause concern to be examined and discussed through a process of - moderation.

                          None of us (moderators) are experts on defamation or, in particular, libel. But through a sense of duty and concern, your post was temporarily pulled (NOT deleted) for consideration in case your statement could have realistically threatened a serious consequence. It was restored in full as soon as we, as a group, were able to discuss this concern.

                          You have already confused the Amazon direct versus Marketplace differences in your additional explanation above.

                          I don't doubt you have had your problems with Amazon. I have had problems with products purchased from Amazon direct and Marketplace resellers. These have all been resolved quickly and amicably. I'm sorry to hear of your different experience, but the fact is - that's your experience and for all I know may or may not be representative of your average Amazon customer.

                          Your statement "They also sell a lot of substandard and counterfeit goods including memory cards and computer software." is a serious accusation but you are not making it clear about the source of the faulty goods (Amazon direct or a Marketplace reseller) and you didn't make it clear it's just your opinion based on your experience. You have no proof to make a more general complaint of 'a lot of...'

                          If you somehow don't understand that language like this can be troubling to us for the sincere reasons explained, it simply emphasises the challenge of the struggle to justify the continuation of the off-topic section of the forum.

                          If you or any member thinks that this section of a photography forum is a place that anything can be said, with no respect or regard for the sanity of myself and the volunteers that help me moderate it, then what is the point?

                          On top of that Jax thinks I am only thinking of protecting a business opportunity. Do you guys have no idea at all how concerning this is?

                          Ian
                          Founder and editor of:
                          Olympus UK E-System User Group (http://e-group.uk.net)
                          Four Thirds User (http://fourthirds-user.com)
                          Digital Photography Now (http://dpnow.com)
                          Olympus camera, lens, and accessory hire (http://e-group.uk.net/hire)

                          Twitter: www.twitter.com/ian_burley
                          Flickr: www.flickr.com/photos/dpnow/
                          Pinterest: www.pinterest.com/ianburley/
                          NEW: My personal BLOG ianburley.com
                          sigpic

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Amazon Boycott

                            Originally posted by Jax
                            Amazon's business ethics have been documented and questioned literally thousands of times in the past. If each comment or criticism resulted in legal action by Amazon, the company would have gone into liquidation long ago.

                            However it may be worth considering a statement on the home page that the comments and opinions expressed within the forum are strictly those of the author and not the forum management.

                            Posts made in this forum's political threads over the last few years could also attract legal attention IF your fears are justified. However that being the case, they would be one of possibly millions of similar comments made on every discussion site and media outlet in the world.

                            I have no wish whatever to cause any problem for you and the forum. I do however have a deep dislike of Amazons reported business ethics and alleged tax evasion and have made it perfectly clear in previous posts.

                            If you no longer wish derogatory comments to be made regarding Amazon, that's fine but please make that wish clear so we all know exactly where we stand before posting comments.

                            Given the content of the following link to Wilkipedia, I would hazard a guess any comments made in this forum would attract no attention whatever from Amazon:

                            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Amazon


                            Jax
                            Nigel's post was moderated and reinstated. It would not have been reinstated if there were, after due deliberation, absolute concerns that Amazon's lawyers would be knocking on our door imminently.

                            I have tried to explain why it was moderated and to be candid about our concerns.

                            Instead, I am rewarded by unwarranted and unfounded insinuations that I'm somehow in cahoots with Amazon.

                            And comic commentary adds to the frustration that some don't appear to understand how troubling this is for me and my moderators.

                            I don't know what more I can say.

                            Ian
                            Founder and editor of:
                            Olympus UK E-System User Group (http://e-group.uk.net)
                            Four Thirds User (http://fourthirds-user.com)
                            Digital Photography Now (http://dpnow.com)
                            Olympus camera, lens, and accessory hire (http://e-group.uk.net/hire)

                            Twitter: www.twitter.com/ian_burley
                            Flickr: www.flickr.com/photos/dpnow/
                            Pinterest: www.pinterest.com/ianburley/
                            NEW: My personal BLOG ianburley.com
                            sigpic

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Amazon Boycott

                              Originally posted by Tram View Post
                              Trouble is no one cares apart from you and your acolyte.
                              Are you a mind reader now too, how do you know what my political party of choice is or for that matter how I voted in the referendum

                              You know what assume makes don't you?
                              You have made your views on Brexit, politics and clergy quite clear in the past. I doubt that you have changed those views very much in the intervening few weeks.

                              I really don't care who you buy from, but I chose to buy from ethical businesses wherever I can; and certainly not from businesses which force employees to use their delivery vans as lavatories because they are not allowed sufficient time for toilet breaks. This was discussed in a BBC documentary some time ago and is not new news.
                              ---------------

                              Naughty Nigel


                              Difficult is worth doing

                              Comment

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