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  • Originally posted by Otto View Post
    This is not a Tory win, it's a Labour/LibDem loss. Corbyn was never going to be credible opposition. Now let's all sit back and watch Johnson deliver on all his promises, I think we may have a long wait. Enjoy your euphoria Dave, Jax, et al, it won't last long! .
    At least we won't be seeing Chequers occupied by a homeless family now !


    Jax

    Comment


    • Who'd have thought that the working class industrial North would look at Johnson, Rees-Mogg, Grayling etc., and say "I can relate to these people, they share my values, understand and sympathise with my problems. They're my kind of people" ? They've got a very, very rude awakening coming! The turkeys voted for Brexit in 2016 and now the Torys are going to stuff them!

      This is the sort of result I'd hoped for. A hung parliament wouldn't have resolved anything and a Labour victory was very unlikely. I'm just hoping for a hard Brexit so the lesson will be driven well home! It's a shame that a lot of people are going to suffer, though.

      Jim

      Comment


      • It's the young people I feel for, they will have to live with this mess the longest. I agree this does remove the logjam but I fear it will be a pyrrhic victory for the leavers, and we will all have to suffer the consequences. I suspect the EU negotiations will wipe the smile off Johnson's face in fairly short order and he will be finished, then the rest of us can regroup and pick up the pieces. There is going to have to be a serious reorganisation of UK politics, in its present state it's not fit for purpose.
        Regards
        Richard

        Comment




        • Research by the BBC’s Laurence Sleator has shown that all 18 MPs who defected in the last Parliament then stood again for this one failed in their endeavours to be re-elected to the House of Commons. Two even lost their deposits…

          Liberal Democrat Losers
          • Angela Smith
          • Chuka Umunna
          • Phillip Lee
          • Luciana Berger
          • Sarah Wollaston
          • Antoinette Sandbach
          • Sam Gyimah

          Independent Losers
          • Frank Field
          • David Gauke
          • Dominic Grieve
          • Anne Milton
          • Chris Williamson (Lost deposit)
          • Ivan Lewis (Lost deposit)
          • Gavin Shuker
          • Roger Godsiff

          Tigger Losers
          • Anna Soubry
          • Mike Gapes
          • Chris Leslie
          Dave

          My Flickr

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Jax View Post

            It couldn't happen to a more deserving person. Perhaps now he will at long last do the right thing and resign from the party he has managed to ruin.


            Jax
            Exactly, totally destroyed the party, borne out by the fact that even up against the floppy haired one he / they couldn’t pull off an open goal. They should have romped to victory against Boris, but not even close.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Otto View Post
              It's the young people I feel for, they will have to live with this mess the longest. I agree this does remove the logjam but I fear it will be a pyrrhic victory for the leavers, and we will all have to suffer the consequences. I suspect the EU negotiations will wipe the smile off Johnson's face in fairly short order and he will be finished, then the rest of us can regroup and pick up the pieces. There is going to have to be a serious reorganisation of UK politics, in its present state it's not fit for purpose.
              I agree with the ‘not fit for purpose’ comment but think it applies more to the current crop (sp?) of actual politicians more than the system, broke as it may be. If we’d had a decent bunch of diplomats, statesmen etc throughout the party system then we surely wouldn’t be in the mess we are in with Brexit, it’d have been sorted a good couple of years ago. Instead we have a bunch of hopeless twerps who between them couldn’t find a brewery let alone get a chance to organise anything when there. I totally blame the politicians for all of this.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Jax View Post

                At least we won't be seeing Chequers occupied by a homeless family now !


                Jax
                Because it would be so bad for them to have a roof over their heads? Or Chequers isn’t for the likes of them? I’m not sure where you’re coming from. Unless it’s just a joke about homeless people generally?

                Comment


                • I have kept out of this debate on the forum for some time but I feel the need to, respectfully, make some personal observations. I don't expect everyone to agree but I don't want to trigger a slanging match. I'd ask that if you don't have a respectful and constructive response, please don't bother.

                  A significant minority of Labour voters, in effect, made a deal with 'devil' - voting Conservative for the first time ever. That's a huge reach across the divide - the tension in that stretch should not be ignored. Woe betide the Conservatives sitting on their laurels and not rewarding that connection.

                  Despite reservations and even revolt within the BREXIT party, Farage has been proven correct; his candidates very effectively vacuumed Labour dissent that would never have voted Conservative. The BREXIT party didn't split the BREXIT vote and weaken the Conservatives, it simply weakened Labour.

                  Anyone who thinks BREXIT will now go away will be sorely disappointed. Many warn of another no-deal scenario in 12 months time. I'm actually not so sure of that. I have always believed that Boris was manically focused on becoming PM. But there have always been questions regarding his real character and political heart. Many who say they know him best suggest he is more liberal and less anti-Europe than he has sold himself to the public. There is now plenty of speculation that he will now be less Eurosceptic than the Eurosceptics in the Conservative party hoped and maybe expect. He has a big majority in parliament; he can do things the way he really wants without having to pander to extremist elements. And for Boris, trust has never got in the way of his ambition. And I come back to the forthcoming Stage 2 BREXIT negotiations, that promise of getting it done by the end of next year is no longer a critical priority. So not only will BREXIT remain close to the headlines for at least another year, it may well be much longer than that. And those wishing for a hard BREXIT, I don't think so.

                  If you add the Conservative and BREXIT party vote together, they fall short of 50%. I always wanted a separate People's Vote confirmatory referendum to settle the question of BREXIT one way or the other. I still believe Remain would have won. But the Remain-backing parties were out-played. If they had focused on BREXIT and managed to form a temporary government of national unity, things could have been so different. Instead, they focused on their own, you could say - selfish and naive, agendas and in the cold light of day they have paid a hefty price. The possible exception is the SNP, although their primary goal of stopping BREXIT has failed. They might ultimately get around BREXIT by forcing independence - that question will certainly not go away.

                  Electoral reform is now even more urgent than ever. Our first past the post system is no longer fit for purpose. Over 50% of the vote is only represented by about 43% of seats and, something which is easily glossed over by the winners, the majority of voters have absolutely no influence government policy.

                  The Conservatives have no presence in Northern Ireland and only a tiny representation in Scotland. No disrespect to Wales, but the Conservatives are, effectively, the English National Party.

                  While the election result has been a massive success for Boris Johnson and the Conservatives, the result doesn't, in itself, solve anything apart from the certainty of the EU Withdrawal Agreement.

                  The country is still divided and, I fear, many voters have had to turn to parties they - in their hearts - have no affinity with. I include myself, a lifelong centre-Conservative voter, I voted Labour tactically in a rather forlorn attempt to stop my (actually very poor and uninspiring) Tory MP.

                  When voters on both sides are having to vote against their instincts, there is surely something very wrong with our democracy.

                  And, finally, BREXIT. I've said all along that the BREXIT ambition is divided. There are those who resent 'being told what to do' by Europe and dream of being a major independent global player. Then there are those who are, quite understandably, concerned about immigration. You can't overlook the xenophobes either. The Conservatives, by and large, are the dreamers. The concerned are, by and large, working class Labour. The question I ask, is - have the Conservatives ever delivered on promises to improve the lot of working classes?

                  I still mightily fear that a great deal of working class BREXIT supporters will pay the biggest price of BREXIT consequences. Remember, BREXIT has not yet taken effect fully. It's very worrying.
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                  • Originally posted by Otto View Post
                    There is going to have to be a serious reorganisation of UK politics, in its present state it's not fit for purpose.
                    It seems that the message that people responded to - "Get Brexit Done" was what swung it - ignoring the notorious untrustworthiness of those that spouted it. 'Swift, sure decisions' from a strong leader are what the public appear to want, regardless of the consequence of those decisions! 'One Country (UK out of the EU), One People (the British - keep foreigners out), One Leader (Boris Johnson)'. Remind you of anything?

                    Up until now, with the hung and indecisive parliament, it looked to me that we were treading the dangerous path that Germany took in the late 1920s. I just hope that with the extreme right wingers of the Tory party that Dominic Cummings (sorry - Boris Johnson) will be packing in the government, that it won't be a further step in the same direction.

                    Jim

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Ian View Post
                      The question I ask, is - have the Conservatives ever delivered on promises to improve the lot of working classes?
                      A rhetorical question, surely.

                      I still mightily fear that a great deal of working class BREXIT supporters will pay the biggest price of BREXIT consequences. Remember, BREXIT has not yet taken effect fully. It's very worrying.
                      I wouldn't want to be living in the industrial North when the Tory voters realise that they've been duped!

                      Jim

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Steveee View Post

                        Because it would be so bad for them to have a roof over their heads? Or Chequers isn’t for the likes of them? I’m not sure where you’re coming from. Unless it’s just a joke about homeless people generally?
                        Correct, you obviously don't know where I'm coming from and I have no intention of dignifying your comment with an explanation.


                        Jax

                        Comment


                        • So, the 'Con's' got back in again. As Ian says - woe betide us.

                          The campaign has been a load of lies and mud slinging plus personal attacks via social media attacks against Corbyn. Him being "untrustworthy, anti-semitic(maybe because of ties with Gadaffi et al), non patrotic(because of ties with IRA etc) and generally a nasty piece of work". So do not let him win.

                          Boris, meanwhile simply kept his head down and shouted 'Get Brexit Done' at all and sundry. Just like in primary school - he who shouts loudest gets believed and get the attention. He obviously learnt young.

                          As for all stated Election Manifesto's, it has been pointed out they are just 'wish lists' to get voters onside to keep your jobs. They have no validity in law, you cannot argue 'But you promised .... '

                          Brexit will still keep Parliament tied up for ages, to the detriment of any other business. Looks like another five years of 'same old, same old', just a talking shop.

                          Completely demorolised now.

                          David

                          Comment


                          • https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...urt-shuts-down

                            Trump has thrown a spanner in the works:
                            The UK is at risk of being left at the mercy of the EU in its trading relationship in a year’s time after Donald Trump engineered the shutdown of the World Trade Organization’s top court.
                            The US president’s refusal to approve the appointment or reappointment of any judges on the appellate body has left it unable to function....the CBI has said the shutdown of the WTO court will leave global trade “like a football match without referee” and the UK’s lack of free trade agreements post-Brexit would leave the country’s economy vulnerable.
                            What fun awaits us!
                            Regards
                            Richard

                            Comment


                            • Coming from Bolton I agree with the NW voters, because JC is controlled by membership & metropolitan allies, if he would have had the courage of his convictions things could have been better, but I guess he is just an “oppositionist MP” But at least my grandchildren wont be conscripted into a 4th Reich.Instead we have a lying, philandering buffoon in charge.
                              ps
                              I voted NOTAN (none of the above names) in a safe tory seat.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Ian View Post
                                I have kept out of this debate on the forum for some time but I feel the need to, respectfully, make some personal observations. I don't expect everyone to agree but I don't want to trigger a slanging match. I'd ask that if you don't have a respectful and constructive response, please don't bother.


                                Ian, we have now had a democratic election and are all aware of the result. In order to prevent the above mentioned "slanging match" which seems to already have begun, and additionally to prevent any risk of libel you mentioned a few days ago, may I respectfully suggest the following:

                                (1) Close this thread now

                                (2) Ban any further political discussions or comments within this forum.

                                I enjoy the cut and thrust of a lively debate as much as any of the other contributors to this thread but I fear it is impossible to hold such a political discussion without attracting the sorts of comments we are now seeing. The vast amount of contributions to this discussion are from the same handful of members ( myself included ) and I feel the majority of members, in what after all is a photographic themed forum, would be happy to see political posts banned.

                                Regards,

                                Jax

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