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  • Re: Boris Gate

    Originally posted by wornish View Post
    I'm not anxious about it.

    I will be very satisfied if we get a chance to vote and get rid of MP's from all parties who reneged on their promises

    Democracy will, I hope, win in the end.
    Unfortunately the lies told about what Europe does and does not do for us are still believed despite being proved as lies.

    Yesterday I overheard someone say "what we need is chaos, out of chaos comes order, then we can start doing what we want". You could not make it up!

    A typical Brexit voting relative of mine said "Anyone over the age of 65 should not be allowed to vote, it should be the young who decide the future not us old stick in the muds who are always looking back." You could have knocked me down with a feather!
    Stuff from Cuba
    More stuff from Cuba
    It all started here

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    • Re: Boris Gate

      Originally posted by Otto View Post
      What I cannot understand is the Tories' lead in the polls having cause such an almighty mess, only because the Opposition has no leader capable of resolving it.
      The Opposition doesn't stand a chance!

      Regardless of their competence, as we near an election the Tory tabloid press will increase their campaign to smear them.

      Jim

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      • Re: Boris Gate

        Originally posted by Otto View Post
        The only way forward is a second referendum.
        And what then ? A third, a fourth, until you get the desired result ? A fine example of democracy in action

        Jax

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        • Re: Boris Gate

          Originally posted by Jax View Post
          And what then ? A third, a fourth, until you get the desired result ? A fine example of democracy in action

          Jax
          People do change their minds and Dominic C is always saying "Trust the people"!
          Stuff from Cuba
          More stuff from Cuba
          It all started here

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          • Re: Boris Gate

            Originally posted by Jax View Post
            And what then ? A third, a fourth, until you get the desired result ? A fine example of democracy in action
            By that logic we'd never have another election either! If this one goes ahead it'll be the second election since the referendum don't forget. It's not a question of getting the result we want, it's getting a decent majority either way. The referendum result was "we're not sure" so why not see if there's now a definite preference one way of the other? If there is, we can all accept it and move on whichever way it goes.
            Regards
            Richard

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            • Re: Boris Gate

              I've heard of many 'leavers' that would now vote remain. I can't recall hearing of any 'remainers' that would now vote leave (anyone here?).

              I also suspect that there will be many that would say that they still support leave, to maintain 'face', but at the ballot box would actually vote remain.

              Jim

              Comment


              • Re: Boris Gate

                Originally posted by Jim Ford View Post
                The Opposition doesn't stand a chance!

                Regardless of their competence, as we near an election the Tory tabloid press will increase their campaign to smear them.

                Jim
                I don't think the opposition needs the Tory tabloid press to smear them. Their own words, inaction and incompetence speak volumes.

                We can thank the unions for the present Labour leadership. I remember the last time the unions took control of this country and it didn't end well.
                ---------------

                Naughty Nigel


                Difficult is worth doing

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                • Re: Boris Gate

                  Originally posted by Jim Ford View Post
                  I've heard of many 'leavers' that would now vote remain. I can't recall hearing of any 'remainers' that would now vote leave (anyone here?).

                  I also suspect that there will be many that would say that they still support leave, to maintain 'face', but at the ballot box would actually vote remain.

                  Jim
                  One would hope that common sense would prevail but that seems to be in short supply nowadays.
                  ---------------

                  Naughty Nigel


                  Difficult is worth doing

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                  • Re: Boris Gate

                    Well where I am many people who voted to stay (incl members of my own family) now want to leave....and we were told this was a one off right from the start (forget all the lies etc posted by both sides in the run up) it won't be repeated by all of the politicians so we all knew what the deal was with the vote you just cannot keep voting on an issue if you want to reverse it (general elections are totally different every 5 years we know the score there). Would those who voted to remain and won by the same margin accept the leavers creating the same havoc that so far those wanting to stay have created? I voted to (?) but respect the vote as it stands we must move on....

                    Peter
                    OMD-EM1 Mk2, 40-150. f2.8Pro, MC-14 converter, 7-14mm 2.8, 17mm 1.8, 45mm 1.8G, OM50mm 1.8, OM 28mm F2.8, OM 200mm F4 Giottos Silk Road YTL8384Tripod Giottos MH5011 head FL36 and other bits and bobs...
                    I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I needed to be.
                    www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/

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                    • Re: Boris Gate

                      Originally posted by Rocknroll59 View Post
                      Well where I am many people who voted to stay (incl members of my own family) now want to leave....and we were told this was a one off right from the start (forget all the lies etc posted by both sides in the run up) it won't be repeated by all of the politicians so we all knew what the deal was with the vote you just cannot keep voting on an issue if you want to reverse it (general elections are totally different every 5 years we know the score there). Would those who voted to remain and won by the same margin accept the leavers creating the same havoc that so far those wanting to stay have created? I voted to (?) but respect the vote as it stands we must move on....

                      Peter
                      As I see it the greatest risk to the UK right now is a 'Labour' government led by Comrade Corbyn and his unsavoury friends. Even many of his own MP's detest him!

                      We can only hope that if this comes to pass the General Election result will come under the same scrutiny as the Brexit Referendum result, but somehow I doubt it. I am sure the Grauniad would be very quiet about it.

                      With regard to Brexit I fear it is very much a case of 'better the devil you know', but the EU mandarins have hardly covered themselves in glory over the past three years.
                      ---------------

                      Naughty Nigel


                      Difficult is worth doing

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                      • Re: Boris Gate

                        Originally posted by Rocknroll59 View Post
                        ould those who voted to remain and won by the same margin accept the leavers creating the same havoc that so far those wanting to stay have created? I voted to (?) but respect the vote as it stands we must move on....
                        Farage himself said he wouldn't, that such a result would be "unfinished business" and that's the crux of the problem. The referendum was badly drawn up and the result inconclusive. Had there been a decent majority either way (as there was in 1975) we wouldn't be in this mess now.
                        Regards
                        Richard

                        Comment


                        • Re: Boris Gate

                          Originally posted by Otto View Post
                          why not see if there's now a definite preference one way of the other? If there is, we can all accept it and move on whichever way it goes.
                          And if the result is similar to the last referendum where 51.89 percent voted in favour of leaving, and 48.11 percent voted in favour of remaining do you really believe this will solve anything ?

                          If the result returned a definite preference one way or the other I may agree, but my gut instinct tells me it would be another close call. In such a case, all it will achieve is to delay the process even further, solve nothing and cost the taxpayers yet more billions to add to that already spent in this debacle.

                          Sadly, the country is now totally divided with hostilities and aggression on all sides. Even a decisive result one way or the other will never repair the harm already done and that which will continue to be done.

                          The biggest mistake was made by those who determined the format of the first referendum which stipulated it was "advisory" and decided by a "simple majority" rather than stipulating a required percentage.

                          Jax

                          Comment


                          • Re: Boris Gate

                            Farage himself said he wouldn't, that such a result would be "unfinished business" and that's the crux of the problem. The referendum was badly drawn up and the result inconclusive. Had there been a decent majority either way (as there was in 1975) we wouldn't be in this mess now.

                            With respect I cannot see how it was badly drawn up nor inconclusive, leave or stay is about as simple as you could make it, 1975 was totally different (65% turnout 67% in favour to stay nor was it legally binding) as it was then just based on commercial values with the EU and trading not political and it was known as the Common Market not the EU ...many people felt that the EU is the way forward whilst many others felt that they are driving some countries in a way which some didn't want to go...any new referendum will plunge us deeper into conflict and division and would be totally counter productive as there will probably be umpteen options offered by a divided Parliament....plus would it, as has already been suggested solve anything and what if the same thing happened and we vote to leave without a deal ?? as anyone thought about what Parliament would actually do??

                            Cheers

                            Peter
                            OMD-EM1 Mk2, 40-150. f2.8Pro, MC-14 converter, 7-14mm 2.8, 17mm 1.8, 45mm 1.8G, OM50mm 1.8, OM 28mm F2.8, OM 200mm F4 Giottos Silk Road YTL8384Tripod Giottos MH5011 head FL36 and other bits and bobs...
                            I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I needed to be.
                            www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/

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                            • Re: Boris Gate

                              It was badly drawn up simply because it didn't specify a minimum majority either way. It was almost inevitable that it would produce an inconclusive result, and so it did . The result is stalemate. Time for Her Majesty to call a halt and sack the lot of them - roll on November 5th .
                              Regards
                              Richard

                              Comment


                              • Re: Boris Gate

                                Originally posted by Otto View Post
                                It was badly drawn up simply because it didn't specify a minimum majority either way. It was almost inevitable that it would produce an inconclusive result, and so it did . The result is stalemate. Time for Her Majesty to call a halt and sack the lot of them - roll on November 5th .
                                Under the format of a simple majority, the result was neither inconclusive or a stalemate. The electorate voted to leave the EU

                                I do agree about Her Majesty and November the 5th though

                                Jax

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