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If Sensor Size Doesn't Matter, Why Buy a Bigger One?

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  • Harold Gough
    replied
    Re: If Sensor Size Doesn't Matter, Why Buy a Bigger One?

    Originally posted by Beagletorque View Post
    It's mostly down to the physics of collecting photons. Just like collecting rain. You have 2 measuring tubes with the same with a scale on them, one has a 1 meter diameter funnel feeding it and the other funnel is only 6" in diameter. When you have a 2 minute shower the funnels collect the same amount of rain for their respective areas. One tube fills up nicely, the other has very little in it. You can calculate how many mm of rain fell with greater certainty for the larger funnel.
    What we need is Freznel pixels. Lenses:

    https://www.edmundoptics.co.uk/c/fre...SAAEgKlv_D_BwE

    Harold

    Leave a comment:


  • Walti
    replied
    Re: If Sensor Size Doesn't Matter, Why Buy a Bigger One?

    Originally posted by Beagletorque View Post
    What is native iso?
    It's an ISO at home.

    Leave a comment:


  • Internaut
    replied
    Re: If Sensor Size Doesn't Matter, Why Buy a Bigger One?

    Originally posted by Beagletorque View Post
    Technically the native iso is the sensitivity of the sensor compared to old film stock when the output is not amplified by the electronics.
    But why does it matter. If the best DR and lowest noise of a sensor is at iso 200 why would having it at 100 be better? Unless you need a slower shutter speed obviously!
    DR tends to be better at the lower ISO. Consider a relatively ISO Invariant sensor like that in the Sony A7 II. I'm shooting a brightly lit night scene and getting fast enough shutter speeds at ISO 800. At that level, noise is good, but highlights blow easily. What I can do instead is shoot at ISO 400 and under expose by one stop. With the DR of this sensor, I can also consider shooting at ISO 200 and under expose by two stops. Processed in Capture One, I get ISO 800 equivalent either way (just with far richer highlight colours).

    So, to answer you question, having a "native" base ISO of 100 simply rocks compared to having a "native" base ISO of 200. Assuming an ISO Invariant sensor, you can under expose by 1 stop and have shadows equivalent to ISO 200 plus better protected highlights.

    I believe Nikon introduce their own magic circuitry to the same Sony designed sensors to give an even lower "true" base sensitivity. Sony, of course, offers an ISO 50 - great for flash photography in the studio, but compromised in any scene that's contrasty.

    Leave a comment:


  • Harold Gough
    replied
    Re: If Sensor Size Doesn't Matter, Why Buy a Bigger One?

    Originally posted by TimP View Post
    What if we mirror coated the inside of the lens hood.
    An anti-hood. Try that one out in the Dragons' Den! It certainly has a USP.

    Harold

    Leave a comment:


  • Beagletorque
    replied
    Re: If Sensor Size Doesn't Matter, Why Buy a Bigger One?

    Technically the native iso is the sensitivity of the sensor compared to old film stock when the output is not amplified by the electronics.
    But why does it matter. If the best DR and lowest noise of a sensor is at iso 200 why would having it at 100 be better? Unless you need a slower shutter speed obviously!

    Leave a comment:


  • Internaut
    replied
    Re: If Sensor Size Doesn't Matter, Why Buy a Bigger One?

    Originally posted by Beagletorque View Post
    What is native iso?

    Leave a comment:


  • Beagletorque
    replied
    Re: If Sensor Size Doesn't Matter, Why Buy a Bigger One?

    What is native iso?

    Originally posted by Internaut View Post
    My A7 II has three tangible advantages over my more extensive M43 kit:

    1. Dynamic range. I can shoot -2 stops with ease. If I use Capture One to process the raw, the penalty for this is almost unnoticeable.
    2. Hand in hand with the dynamic range is native ISO-100. What I would give for an Olympus camera with true (well, as true as you can get) ISO 100!
    3. The usual low light advantage, though the A7 II is considered relatively poor in this respect.

    For my photo, DoF is not normally a disadvantage. If I shoot a scene at f8, on the A7 II, I can get very similar results, at equivalent focal length, by shooting f4 on my Olympus kit.

    But what about size? There's not a great deal of difference between the A7II and E-M1 II. The A7 II is at it's best with a light (f1.8) prime, whereas some of Sony's fast zooms are huge. Of course, I also have a Pen F which is far smaller than either the Olympus professional body or the A7 II.

    Leave a comment:


  • Beagletorque
    replied
    Re: If Sensor Size Doesn't Matter, Why Buy a Bigger One?

    That's a completely ridiculous idea and it will never work as anyone can plainly see.
    You will of course make a shed load of cash on kickstarter and reviewers with absolutely love it.

    Leave a comment:


  • Internaut
    replied
    Re: If Sensor Size Doesn't Matter, Why Buy a Bigger One?

    My A7 II has three tangible advantages over my more extensive M43 kit:

    1. Dynamic range. I can shoot -2 stops with ease. If I use Capture One to process the raw, the penalty for this is almost unnoticeable.
    2. Hand in hand with the dynamic range is native ISO-100. What I would give for an Olympus camera with true (well, as true as you can get) ISO 100!
    3. The usual low light advantage, though the A7 II is considered relatively poor in this respect.

    For my photo, DoF is not normally a disadvantage. If I shoot a scene at f8, on the A7 II, I can get very similar results, at equivalent focal length, by shooting f4 on my Olympus kit.

    But what about size? There's not a great deal of difference between the A7II and E-M1 II. The A7 II is at it's best with a light (f1.8) prime, whereas some of Sony's fast zooms are huge. Of course, I also have a Pen F which is far smaller than either the Olympus professional body or the A7 II.

    Leave a comment:


  • Jax
    replied
    Re: If Sensor Size Doesn't Matter, Why Buy a Bigger One?

    Too late Tim ! Hubble beat you to it, on their second attempt anyway

    Jax

    Leave a comment:


  • TimP
    replied
    Re: If Sensor Size Doesn't Matter, Why Buy a Bigger One?

    Originally posted by Beagletorque View Post
    Lens hoods are designed to cut out light so you need to take them off!

    Leave a comment:


  • Beagletorque
    replied
    Re: If Sensor Size Doesn't Matter, Why Buy a Bigger One?

    And before anyone asks, no Olympus pro cameras are not at a disadvantage because they are weather sealed.

    Leave a comment:


  • Beagletorque
    replied
    Re: If Sensor Size Doesn't Matter, Why Buy a Bigger One?

    Lens hoods are designed to cut out light so you need to take them off!

    Leave a comment:


  • Jax
    replied
    Re: If Sensor Size Doesn't Matter, Why Buy a Bigger One?

    Originally posted by Beagletorque View Post
    It's mostly down to the physics of collecting photons. Just like collecting rain. You have 2 measuring tubes with the same with a scale on them, one has a 1 meter diameter funnel feeding it and the other funnel is only 6" in diameter. When you have a 2 minute shower the funnels collect the same amount of rain for their respective areas. One tube fills up nicely, the other has very little in it. You can calculate how many mm of rain fell with greater certainty for the larger funnel.
    Maybe we need lenses fitted with much larger diameter lens hoods, to collect more photons ?

    Jax

    Leave a comment:


  • Harold Gough
    replied
    Re: If Sensor Size Doesn't Matter, Why Buy a Bigger One?

    Originally posted by Beagletorque View Post
    It's mostly down to the physics of collecting photons. Just like collecting rain. You have 2 measuring tubes with the same with a scale on them, one has a 1 meter diameter funnel feeding it and the other funnel is only 6" in diameter. When you have a 2 minute shower the funnels collect the same amount of rain for their respective areas. One tube fills up nicely, the other has very little in it. You can calculate how many mm of rain fell with greater certainty for the larger funnel.
    Good news for monochrome but lots of little, colour-dedicated, pixels...

    Harold

    Leave a comment:

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