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Anyone know anything about Scots Land Law?

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  • Jim Ford
    replied
    Re: Anyone know anything about Scots Land Law?

    Originally posted by Wally View Post
    Those that did the land-grabbing quite possibly - more than likely - had the illegality, written into new laws giving them the rights and privileges of ownership in law.
    "The law locks up the man or woman
    Who steals the goose from off the common
    But leaves the greater villain loose
    Who steals the common from off the goose"

    Jim

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  • Wally
    replied
    Re: Anyone know anything about Scots Land Law?

    @ ^ Perhaps you too, are correct?

    But looking at the current fiasco, reference the Panama Papers, it seems to makes more sense, that when it comes right down to the nitty-gritty, show me a law that doesn't have a get out clause or wording to that effect?

    There also seems to be a subtle difference when it comes to being illegal and being morally corrupt. If illegal you can go to jail. If morally corrupt, you have two choices? Continue to take sleeping pills to get a good nights sleep or, stick two fingers at the establishment and carry on regardless... = Kerching.

    PS: the only thing I know about the law is: Break it and get caught, you go to jail... unless you get a good solicitor.

    So far, over my 70+ years, I've been extremely lucky.

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  • KeithL
    replied
    Re: Anyone know anything about Scots Land Law?

    Originally posted by Wally View Post
    Although you may be correct, I'm thinking that the existing grammar and translation problems are a result of not only legal jargon but of an age when they were written into law?

    It didn't help matters that people were evicted from their land during the clearances and that land-grabbing took place. Those that did the land-grabbing possible - more than likely - had the illegality, written into new laws giving them the rights and priviledgesof ownership in law. Hence the Feudal Law in Scotland and not in England.

    .
    In that case, Wally, one would expect it to be worded in such a way that the meaning is unambiguous, whether English or Scottish law. Particularly as Scottish law tends to be more prescriptive than English law.

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  • Wally
    replied
    Re: Anyone know anything about Scots Land Law?

    Originally posted by Shaw View Post
    Although the document(s) in question are Scottish, it (they) are written in English, so, in my opinion it is poorly constructed English written by a Scot.
    Although you may be correct, I'm thinking that the existing grammar and translation problems are a result of not only legal jargon but of an age when they were written into law?

    As much of Scotland was held in the hands of clans prior to the clearances, It didn't help matters that once people were evicted from their land, large scale land-grabbing took place. As ownership of land etc., was handed down, legal paperwork could have been non-existent and, therefore, impossible to prove ownership. Those that did the land-grabbing quite possibly - more than likely - had the illegality, written into new laws giving them the rights and privileges of ownership in law. Quite possibly the reason as to how the Feudal Law and feu duties came to be in, Scotland, and not in England.

    Many legal documents of that age, (1700’s 18th - 1800's 19th century) omit punctuation in an effort to prevent possible backlash in the future which could / would arise due to incorrect punctuation.
    Last edited by Wally; 8th November 2017, 05:25 PM. Reason: As a Scot, my English grammar is very poor. ;-)

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  • Shaw
    replied
    Re: Anyone know anything about Scots Land Law?

    Originally posted by Wee man View Post
    KeithL
    It is not poorly constructed English it is Scottish!


    OK I am going..................

    Sent from my LG-H870 using Tapatalk
    Although the document(s) in question are Scottish, it (they) are written in English, so, in my opinion it is poorly constructed English written by a Scot.

    Leave a comment:


  • KeithL
    replied
    Re: Anyone know anything about Scots Land Law?

    Originally posted by Wee man View Post
    KeithL
    It is not poorly constructed English it is Scottish!


    OK I am going..................

    Sent from my LG-H870 using Tapatalk
    Exactly! How can the Scots be expected to write good English - they can't even speak it properly!

    Leave a comment:


  • Jim Ford
    replied
    Re: Anyone know anything about Scots Land Law?

    Originally posted by Wally View Post
    If you haven't already found it, this link might prove useful? http://www.scottishlaw.org.uk/lawsco...tslawland.html

    It provides modern English explanations to the 17 / 18th century archaic terminology used.
    Thanks a lot 'Wally' it's very helpful.

    jim

    Leave a comment:


  • Wee man
    replied
    Re: Anyone know anything about Scots Land Law?

    Originally posted by Wally View Post
    If you haven't already found it, this link might prove useful? http://www.scottishlaw.org.uk/lawsco...tslawland.html

    It provides modern English explanations to the 17 / 18th century archaic terminology used.
    KeithL
    It is not poorly constructed English it is Scottish!


    OK I am going..................

    Sent from my LG-H870 using Tapatalk

    Leave a comment:


  • Wally
    replied
    Re: Anyone know anything about Scots Land Law?

    If you haven't already found it, this link might prove useful? http://www.scottishlaw.org.uk/lawsco...tslawland.html

    It provides modern English explanations to the 17 / 18th century archaic terminology used.

    Leave a comment:


  • Naughty Nigel
    replied
    Re: Anyone know anything about Scots Land Law?

    Originally posted by PeterBirder View Post
    Of course being cynical we can see that which ever way you do it the lawyers always benefit.
    They always do!

    Leave a comment:


  • PeterBirder
    replied
    Re: Anyone know anything about Scots Land Law?

    Originally posted by KeithL View Post
    Sounds like poorly constructed English to me. A comma or three wouldn't go amiss! As in: "dated 14, and registered in the Books of Council, and Session on 15, both days of March 2016."
    The non use of punctuation in contracts used to be the norm.

    During my career with Marconi when I moved from an engineering role to sales and marketing I had to go on a company commercial procedures course a lot of which concerned contract terms and conditions etc. It was explained on that course that punctuation was left out partly to avoid adverse outcomes in any contract disputes due to the punctuation being wrong and allowing the wrong interpretation of a clause and numerous examples of classic cases where incorrect contract writing had cost companies dearly were quoted. Also English Law (and I imagine Scots Law) relies heavily on Legal Precident ie. the judgement in previous similar cases which is the reason that lawyers have vast libraries of previous cases. The commercial manager of my division with whom I worked on a number of multi million pound contracts and contract negotiations was in fact a qualified barrister, such was the importance of trying to get a "watertight" contract. Marconi's considered that it was preferable to rely on arguing your case, if it came to it on the basis of the context and intent of the contract and legal precedent was preferable to losing at the first hurdle because of a mistake in punctuation.

    Looking at recent information on the internet on the subject it seems that more recently it has become more common to include punctuation in contracts. However, looking at a number of contract law sites and blogs it seems that there are now an awful lot of cases where bad punctuation has led to entirely wrong interpretation of the intent of a contract being upheld by a judge to the detriment of the contractor.

    Of course being cynical we can see that which ever way you do it the lawyers always benefit.

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  • Jim Ford
    replied
    Re: Anyone know anything about Scots Land Law?

    The thing about these feudal documents (I believe it's changed now) is that they are so dense with archaic and obsolete words, that it would have been impossible for the people signing them to have understood what they were signing for!

    Here's a beauty: 'effeiring' - from 'effier' meaning 'to suit or be appropriate for'. How many times have you come across that one?

    Jim

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  • KeithL
    replied
    Re: Anyone know anything about Scots Land Law?

    Originally posted by MargaretR View Post
    As one currently buying a property in Scotland, I was given a copy of the Guide to Scottish Standard Clauses
    http://www.barnettslaw.co.uk/pdf/cli...rd_clauses.pdf

    Usage in that is along the lines of :-
    "This is the style of Offer specified in the Deed of Declaration by Ross Alexander MacKay dated 14 and registered in the Books of Council and Session on 15 both days of March 2016."

    In this instance, clearly two days are named, the 14th and 15th. In a roundabout legal manner. So maybe earlier in your gibberish there's another date specified, which with the 15th equals "both days" ?
    Sounds like poorly constructed English to me. A comma or three wouldn't go amiss! As in: "dated 14, and registered in the Books of Council, and Session on 15, both days of March 2016."

    Leave a comment:


  • MargaretR
    replied
    Re: Anyone know anything about Scots Land Law?

    As one currently buying a property in Scotland, I was given a copy of the Guide to Scottish Standard Clauses
    http://www.barnettslaw.co.uk/pdf/cli...rd_clauses.pdf

    Usage in that is along the lines of :-
    "This is the style of Offer specified in the Deed of Declaration by Ross Alexander MacKay dated 14 and registered in the Books of Council and Session on 15 both days of March 2016."

    In this instance, clearly two days are named, the 14th and 15th. In a roundabout legal manner. So maybe earlier in your gibberish there's another date specified, which with the 15th equals "both days" ?

    Leave a comment:


  • Wally
    replied
    Re: Anyone know anything about Scots Land Law?

    This might be worth a Googling as quite recently, within the last few months. The question was raised in the Scottish Parliament about who actually owns the land in Sctland. The gist of the qustion, was that over 50% is apparently still owned by just a few individuals.

    Edit: Here's a link to a Scotsman Newspaper article on the subject http://www.scotsman.com/news/politic...land-1-4573188

    Leave a comment:

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